News on your favorite shows, specials & more!

Bad Overtures?

chrishuyen
#1Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/20/22 at 5:44pm

There's a list of generally agreed upon "best overtures" but do people have examples of what they consider terrible overtures (especially when the score is good)?  I feel like most of them fall into the "serviceable but not that notable" category so wondering what people would consider actively bad.

On the flip side, are there any shows where the score was mediocre but the overture managed to elevate it?

JSquared2
#2Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/20/22 at 5:49pm

chrishuyen said: "On the flip side, are there any shows where the score was mediocre but the overture managed to elevate it?"

 

Yes -- FUNNY GIRL.

Also MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG

Updated On: 10/21/22 at 05:49 PM

Bill Snibson Profile Photo
Bill Snibson
#3Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/20/22 at 8:16pm

Legally Blond had an awful, synthesized overture

CATSNYrevival Profile Photo
CATSNYrevival
#4Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/20/22 at 8:36pm

Most overtures these days are about 45 seconds long. How can something be actively bad in only 45 seconds?

Jarethan
#5Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/20/22 at 11:54pm

I thought the Tootsie overture was as bad as it gets.  The real problem was that the score sucked.

Interestingly, re Funny Girl, I remember the original production having a great overture.  I saw Funny Girl last night and was very disappointed with the overture.  Did I remember the original incorrectly?  Was this just  different (and inferior to the original)?  Was the real issue that the orchestra was so thin?  I don't know, but I was disappointed.

Updated On: 10/21/22 at 11:54 PM

Bill Snibson Profile Photo
Bill Snibson
#6Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/20/22 at 11:59pm

CATSNYrevival said: "Most overtures these days are about 45 seconds long. How can something be actively bad in only 45 seconds?"

It’s tricky now. Our attention spans are so short that the days of overtures seem gone. Lights out/curtain up/ and start the show! 

Impeach2017 Profile Photo
Impeach2017
#7Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/21/22 at 7:21am

Funny Girl set the standard for great overtures that elevated the proceedings substantially.  As for "bad" overtures, the one for Cats comes to mind.  

binau Profile Photo
binau
#8Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/21/22 at 7:25am

I find the overtures for "Bounce" and "Merrily" to be much more magical than the shows itself. 


"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022) "Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009) "Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000

leefowler
#9Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/21/22 at 7:30am

I recently read that Sir Arthur Sullivan went to the trouble of writing his own overture for one of his operettas (he usually left the overture to his assistants.) After opening night, he complained bitterly that everyone talked during it, and he'd never write another one. So, audiences really haven't changed that much!


Behind the fake tinsel of Broadway is real tinsel.

¿Macavity?
#10Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/21/22 at 9:13am

Hard to think of a truly bad overture... But for your other question, I think WONDERLAND and GHOST have waaay better overtures than the shows themselves.

sassylash3s
#11
Posted: 10/21/22 at 9:23pm

Not "bad", exactly, but I do think that for a show with so many great tunes, it's unfortunate that Hello, Dolly! has never had a great overture. The original production played without one, as I understand it, but there have been a few different versions used in subsequent productions, none of which have been all that great, IMO.

As far as an overture that is better than the score it draws from, I humbly submit the overture from Goodtime Charley.

chrishuyen
#12Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/26/22 at 1:59pm

In retrospect I'd say I probably have to agree about Funny Girl's overture elevating the score, though I'd say Merrily always had a great score (in many flawed productions) and the overture was really just showcasing it.

ALW overtures are strange because they're pretty much just the instrumental for one song.  It works for Phantom but not sure how well it does otherwise.

SuttonPeron
#13Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/26/22 at 2:15pm

Jarethan said: "I thought the Tootsie overture was as bad as it gets. The real problem was that the score sucked.

Interestingly, re Funny Girl, I remember the original production having a great overture. I saw Funny Girl last night and was very disappointed with the overture. Did I remember the original incorrectly? Was this just different (and inferior to the original)? Was the real issue that the orchestra was so thin? I don't know, but I was disappointed.
"

Most likely the awfully thin orchestra. It´s a wonderful overture, beautifully arranged, but you do need a large string and brass sections and at least two percussionists (the keyboard xylo sucks!) for it to shine. This version is my personal favorite:

Funny Girl Broadway Overture (Live in Concert) - YouTube

blaxx Profile Photo
blaxx
#14Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/26/22 at 2:28pm

Impeach2017 said: "Funny Girl set the standard for great overtures that elevated the proceedings substantially. As for "bad" overtures, the one for Cats comes to mind."

Not only is the Overture for Cats amazing, it is also one of the best lighting designs for an overture in musical theater history.


Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE

Elibal Profile Photo
Elibal
#15Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/26/22 at 2:46pm

Probably controversial but Showboat, so many glorious tunes and the overture does a terrible job of selling them. Similarly I don't think I've ever liked a South Pacific overture.

leefowler
#16Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/26/22 at 5:38pm

I remember Saturday Night Fever not having a very good overture. It was sort of a limp medley of the songs in the show.


Behind the fake tinsel of Broadway is real tinsel.

ErmengardeStopSniveling Profile Photo
ErmengardeStopSniveling
#17Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/26/22 at 5:47pm

Elibal said: "Probably controversial but Showboat, so many glorious tunes and the overture does a terrible job of selling them."

I so agree. And it’s a wonderful score that deserves a better overture. There are many different versions, and so many of them start somberly.

Lehman Engel has a nice short (45 second) one on an album which is not the traditional SB overture.

Lot666 Profile Photo
Lot666
#18Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/27/22 at 9:01am


==> this board is a nest of vipers <==

"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage
Updated On: 10/27/22 at 09:01 AM

Fan123 Profile Photo
Fan123
#19Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/27/22 at 4:34pm

KISS ME, KATE might not have a 'bad' overture, but the way that they placed the Entr'acte at the start of the original Broadway cast album has got me attuned to finding that the much better opening for the show. Others seem to agree; as I recall the original Entr'acte music has now pretty much become the overture that's inserted into 'Another Openin', Another Show' for recent productions.

BRIGADOON. Again I'm probably just too accustomed to another opening, but the film's main titles gives us a pretty segment of 'The Heather on the Hill' which I miss from the stage overture.

morosco Profile Photo
morosco
#20Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/28/22 at 3:27pm

I always found the Jerome Robbin's Broadway overture disappointing.

CATSNYrevival Profile Photo
CATSNYrevival
#21Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/28/22 at 7:43pm

Fan123 said: "KISS ME, KATE might not have a 'bad' overture, but the way that they placed the Entr'acte at the start of the original Broadway cast album has got me attuned to finding that the much better opening for the show. Others seem to agree; as I recall the original Entr'acte music has now pretty much become the overture that's inserted into 'Another Openin', Another Show' for recent productions."

I'd love to hear a fabulous Kiss Me, Kate overture some day. I don't like the way current productions drop it into the middle of the opening number.

 

chewy5000 Profile Photo
chewy5000
#22Bad Overtures?
Posted: 10/28/22 at 9:31pm

I think the 'new' arrangement of Another Op'nin' suits the meta nature of the show, similar to what Rodgers and Hammerstein did with Me and Juliet


Videos