The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Noel&Cole
Leading Actor Joined: 11/10/07
#1The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 5:48pm
This article in variety got me thinking that playwrights seem to cry poor, yet in reality they stand to make most of their work of anyone in the theatre community
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118015504.html?categoryid=15&cs=1
Please understand, I have a huge amount of respect for writers for in the end they supply the product that allows the theatre to exist BUT when did anyone working in the theatre ever have it easy? The theatre is a hard business all the way down the line. Writers get a commission or up front fee plus a royalty. Their royalty is usually 5%-8% of the box office pre-recoupment. That is a bigger royalty or percentage than anyone else! The writer will get more money than any director, producer, or actor (with exception of the biggest mega stars). They also get the the royalty in every production that's ever done anywhere going forward. A play can run for a year and loose everything, loosing its investors or theatre company lots of money and the playwright can walk away having made hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I just find it ironic that playwrights seem to be the loudest complainers, the ones to cry poor, when they make more money form their work than anybody else involved. The theatre is a rough business. If you write a play that gets a regional run for 12 weeks and its makes 45k-100k, for that one run, not including the future life it may have, what else do you want?
Curious to hear other people's thoughts on this subject.
metsfan
Chorus Member Joined: 7/29/09
#2The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 6:07pm
You need to do a little bit more research on how and how much writers are actually paid.
Start with the Dramatists Guild APC, which all members sign for Broadway productions. Best-case scenario it's 4.5% pre-recoupment. Then research grey zones, royalty pools, royalty deferments.
That's just commercial productions. Writers produced at non-profits -- the majority of productions in this country -- tend not to have the same guarantees, unless they're in the very small cadre of writers who can dictate their own terms.
Then maybe talk to some actual writers about how long it takes to get a play or musical written and produced in any production, much less a commercial one. Ask that writer how much they've made on a show, and then break it down to a yearly salary. Monthly. Hourly. Most writers don't make minimum wage if you look at it this way.
I could go on, but I doubt you're paying attention. You've got a couple facts and you're going with them. If you really want an answer to your question, don't read one article and then attempt to jumpstart a chatboard firestorm. Do some research.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#2The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 6:12pm
1. without the playwright....an awful lot of people would not be garnering ANY income. SHOULDNT the playwright be the one earning the most as it is his/her artistic product to begin with?
2. 5 to 8% of 45 to 100K is not all that much. I certainly couldn't live on it.
3. Notice at the end of the article when it show how FEW playwrights are making over 40K a year...and that is not strictly from writing. And how many are making less than 25k (a third) Hardly "rolling in it" as you seem to want us to think.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
twoladies
Chorus Member Joined: 12/4/07
#3The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 6:17pm
...
yaaay for starting a degree in playwriting next year
Noel&Cole
Leading Actor Joined: 11/10/07
#4The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 9:17pm
I never said "playwrights are rolling in it". I understand its difficult to be a playwright, but I think it is no more difficult than being an actor, director, designer, producer, stage manager, or choreographer. I even said I respect the fact that as a general rule they stand to make the most from a production of the play.
All I am saying is that the theatre is rough industry in all aspects, the book OUTRAGEOUS FORTUNE makes it sound as if Playwrights are the victim.
Updated On: 2/21/10 at 09:17 PM
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#5The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 9:45pm
"A play can run for a year and loose everything, loosing its investors or theatre company lots of money and the playwright can walk away having made hundreds of thousands of dollars."
That seems to imply that you think that playwrights are indeed "rolling in it."
scaryclowns2232
Stand-by Joined: 6/18/08
#6The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/21/10 at 11:42pm
A play that is going to lose everything for its investors will not run for a year.
It will be lucky to get a couple of months.
Start checking your facts-- your argument is littered with holes.
#7The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/22/10 at 12:20amAnd how many playwrights actually find a measure of success AS playwrights? Very few.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#8The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/22/10 at 6:33am
1. How is is EASIER for Playwrights? For every playwright that actually gets a play produced, there are numerous designers, actors and techies now employed.
2. How many aspiring playwrights NEVER get a play produced? Or more than one?
And yes, you certainly did make it sound like you thought they were rolling in it....and that they should shut up since they have it so easy.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
DryMartini
Stand-by Joined: 3/20/06
#9The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/22/10 at 10:34amActors, directors, designers, etc. can do more than one project a year. Whereas it takes a long time to write a play, even if the playwright is prolific.
Baylink
Chorus Member Joined: 3/23/09
#10The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/22/10 at 11:54am
I have a suspicion that the OPs argument is based on what I call the "Metallica fallacy", which is basically the support argument generally given for the structure of the music industry today: the top 1% of artists make about 85% of the industry's revenue, and subsidize everyone else.
Whether it's an *accurate* argument is another issue...
#11The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/23/10 at 1:12amA playwright can spend years working on a play before it achieves a commercial production; their big pay-off is after a long period of unpaid work. As for their huge fees, 8% of $100,000 is considered poverty level for a single person with no dependents. How is that "easier" than the salaried actors and directors?
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
LadyDramaturg2
Featured Actor Joined: 8/21/08
#12The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 2/23/10 at 4:22pmNot to mention that Everyone, from Producers on down through Actors often "tinker" with the playwright's work, and the writer has only a minimal (though varying) degree of leverage with which to protect his (her) original words.
msbungee
Chorus Member Joined: 6/30/15
#13The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 4:12pm
Sorry to bring back an old thread, but the topic of playwrights' salaries got me wondering. As someone posted earlier, average playright's royalty is usually 5%-8% of the box office pre-recoupment.
So does that mean that Lin-Manuel is making 5%-8% of $1,844,837 this week ($92,241-$147,586)?
Obviously, not every show is Hamilton and rakes in this amount as a weekly gross. But is my understanding correct?
#14The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 4:20pm
the amount of mis-information in this thread takes the cutglass flyswatter. So much that it's not worth trying to sort it out. My advice is to ignore this thread and start over.
Jose
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/23/03
#15The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 5:10pm
I have not yet read the article the OP references. Despite that I'm compelled to add one, or two, facts that the OP misses in his/her comments. Everyone, EVERYONE, makes money off the playwright from the day a play/musical is optioned. Except for the count-them-on-one-hand playwrights who command and get top dollar upfront and sometimes BO percentages, the playwright is nearly always the lowest paid in every production. The producer, director, the designers, the actors, the marketing and press folks, the crafts--they all get their fees up-front and/or weekly salaries often from prior to the start of rehearsals. Then some eventually also receive a percentage of the BO where applicable. The reason given to playwrights is always "you're gonna make a lot of money." That has been proven to Not be the case in most situations. Also, and I believe someone has mentioned this next point. All of the participants I mentioned above can have more than one show simultaneously because they work for hire so their income increases exponentially. The playwright with his one play, which may or may not, have a life beyond opening night rarely has that option.
#16The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 5:35pm
Does anyone actually think Terrence McNally made more money from It's Only a Play then either Nathan Lane or Matthew Broderick? Or that he ever will?
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Tom5
Broadway Star Joined: 9/23/11
#17The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 5:42pm
The only realistic way for a playwright to make good money on Broadway is after Broadway. Either national (better worldwide) regional productions or a movie sale. As I understand it the rule is the theater company (or producer) and playwright split the amount payed evenly. A playwright should also have it in his contract that he (she) gets first and second crack at the screenplay adaptation. For a feature that would be no small additional amount.
#18The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 5:51pm
and the mis-information continues.
msbungee
Chorus Member Joined: 6/30/15
#19The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 6:11pm
To specify:
Regardless of the playwright's pay in relation to the director, producers, actors, etc. is it true that the playwright receives a 5-8% royalty of the box office's weekly grosses pre-recoupment?
#20The ongoing complaint of the playwright.
Posted: 12/30/15 at 7:54pm
bungee, there is no correct answer without knowing the contract and the presence or absence of a royalty pool. But in general, and absent a pool, a writer controlling the whole ball of wax (i.e., no collaborators) would usually get around 6% (2+2+2) on a musical so yes LMM is making a lot of money, and that's true even if he is woefully underpaid (which I seriously doubt).
Responding to one of the many silly assertions in this thread, a show can be a total loss to investors and still return a princely sum to the writer(s). E.g., Jason Robert Brown on the never ending saga of Honeymoon in Vegas (>$150k), or the estates compensated for On the Town (>$2million), which were among the several shows in the last year that lost everything but ran nonetheless.
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