Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
#0Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/15/05 at 9:07pm
Not argue, but disagree politely and throw other ideas. I don't want to be seen as ungrateful for the part that I got, but I'm starting to get pissed at the way they're running the show. And I don't want to start a HUGE fight or anything, just be like "Couldn't we just do this and that"?
Would that be considered rude?
"It's a great feeling of power to be naked in front of people. We're happy to watch actual incredible graphic violence and gore, but as soon as somebody's naked it seems like the public goes a bit bananas about the whole thing."
BwayLeadman
Broadway Star Joined: 9/29/04
#1re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/15/05 at 9:32pm
depends on the director and how close relationship you have with him/her.
One of my director's is always open for ideas and suggestions.
Joshua488
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/29/04
#2re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/15/05 at 9:35pmIf a director is not open for other interpretations, I don't think that they are a very good director. In my eyes, actors are not puppets and, sometimes, an actor might actually know their character better than the director. I think directors should be willing to listen; they can veto ideas, but at least take them into consideration.
#4re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/15/05 at 9:50pm
I was rehearsing for "Antigone" well over a year ago, and I was very unhappy with some of the things the director was doing with the character that I was playing, and so I discussed it with the him. After a half-hour, it turned out that my ideas worked better.
It doesn't always work out like that, but if he is a good director, he will at least CONSIDER letting you to shop around for choices until you are fascinated and excited by what you have come up with. Either way, for the benefit of the performance, the choices must work. Otherwise, you're both wrong.
pndmnd
Broadway Star Joined: 4/3/04
#5re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/15/05 at 11:03pmYou have to be really careful in how you approach this. It's not so much seeming ungrateful, as being difficult. Giving suggestions for your character, and trying new things is great, but when it comes down to it, as an actor, your job is to put on the show that the director wants. And don't give notes to a fellow actor.
#6re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/15/05 at 11:07pm
Thanks everyone.
I think I have a pretty good relationship with this director, I did a sort of internship with him as an assistant director for The Sound of Music last summer so we're pretty comfortable. I'll throw some ideas, not hot-headily but gracefully and politely. It's just that even though this is a children's theatre, he doesn't always seem to understand that the audience still wants a show so some of his ideas just lack....ideas.
Alright, thank you all!
"It's a great feeling of power to be naked in front of people. We're happy to watch actual incredible graphic violence and gore, but as soon as somebody's naked it seems like the public goes a bit bananas about the whole thing."
#7re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 12:04am
I really hate the way us actors are made to feel "greatful" for being cast. We are trained professionals who have something to offer. Yes, there are thousands of people fighting to get work, but that in no way belittles the respect that you deserve.
A good director is open to ideas. The best directors are "traffic cops": directing the ideas that are given to them by the actors. The best idea always wins.
However, if you can not engage in a respectful, professional dialogue with a director, you have to suck it up and do what they want. You have to work within the given circumstances that they are demanding of you.
Otherwise, you could throw a fabulous diva fit!!! 
#8re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 12:12am
No director should have a problem with taking suggestions for actors...but I think its all in the fashion that you discuss them with the director. If you take her aside and discuss your concerns, I see nothing wrong with that. However, openly questioning the director in front of the cast is not cool. In the last production that that I was in, the director was really cool...but one of the actors started to give other actors blocking suggestions in front of the her and the cast...and she got really pissed...and I think she had reason to.
So, just talk with her privately, and I think everything should be fine.
kitkatgirl54
Leading Actor Joined: 5/19/04
#9re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 9:57am
the key would be if you made it about a personal problem that you have with your character. rather than "ok i have a good idea about this scene," the director would respond a lot better from "i'm having a problem with my character in this scene and i think that if we try this and that with the scene, it would be a lot easier for me." if it's not an actual direction in the show you're upset about but rather the way the rehearsals are being done, say something about "i don't feel like i'm as productive as i could be ... is there any way we could not have all the actors called if you're just going to work on one scene" or whatever the problem may be. if you personalize it, the director will see the problem as something you have a right to talk about, and something that should be fixed.
granted, i don't know the specifics so i'm not sure if that method would work in this situation, but that is the sure-fire way to bring up ideas to the director and have them actually listen.
mikewood
Broadway Star Joined: 4/7/05
#10re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 10:46am
It's a tough call. You also have to think about your rep and long term and short term affects. First of all, the director was hired to to direct his show and put his or her vision on stage. So, in theory, what he says goes. In theory. Now that I am both a director and an actor, I find myself struggling with this more...especially when you think a show is not going well. I also think there is a point in every show where there is a shift. At some point, there director needs to hand over the character to the actor and make the character belong to the actor. One has to weigh your obligation to your belief in what and who the character is and what the director's vision is. Sometimes you bite your tougue and sometimes you have to take a stand.
I've been in this predicament twice in the last year where I felt where the director wanted to take my character was wrong. Once I suffered in silence. To tell the truth, I still kick myself to this today. I was playing Herman in "Suitehearts" and we went off the reservation a little with the character making it really effeminate and over the top. However, the director chickened out and tried to tone the character to the point where no strong choices were made at all. She also decided to have the characters do things that were out of character such as clean up the room. Because I didn't want to rock the boat I went along with it and the results were awful. To this day, I kick myself.
I was in a similar position a couple of months ago when I portrayed Mr. Gilmer in "To Kill a Mockingbird". He was the prosecutor who goes up against Atticus Finch in the courtroom. Anyway, the director was over her head and really had no strong vision for the secondary characters. Meanwhile, I researched the part and compared/contrasted Harper Lee's vision of the character versus Chistopher Sergel (who adapted Lee's novel for stage.) I felt Lee was using Gilmer to be a symbolic representation of the institutional racism prevalent in the Deep South, and considered this to be a stronger choice than Sergel's feint assertation that Gilmer was a good man just doing his job. I made strong choices, and the director and I clashed. Based on the feedback I received, the same people who ripped the first show applauded the latter. I was much happier with my performance.
On the other hand, I earned a reputation with the first group as a "team player" and have been frequently asked to step into parts and will be directing for them next year. With the second group, I have a reputation of "being difficult to work with" and despite directing for them last year was not offered the opportunity to direct for them this next season.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
#11re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 10:52am
I'm doing a show right now - Fiddler - and our Tevye seems to have forgotten that he's not the director. He's constantly telling us what to do. It's really annoying.
I believe in the seperation of actors and directors for this exact reason. However, if you have a problem with a character or a scene, totally talk to the director. If you think you know better than the director how things should be done, step back and take a good look at the situation before butting in with advice. Maybe the director has a vision and is - in their own time - getting there.
There's always room for pathos - and jazz hands.
mikewood
Broadway Star Joined: 4/7/05
#12re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 10:53am
That's the other thing. As a director, I consider a play to be a collaborative effort with the actors. I certainly respect actor's vision. I have yet to have a really strong disagreement with an actor.
When I directed Miracle on 34th Street, I decided I wanted to end the play with an old-fashioned romantic kiss between Fred and Doris (not in the script). One of the actors resisted this and argued against it respectfully in private yet passionately. Ultimately, I opted to have a three way embrace with Doris, her daughter and Fred. I have to say the actor was correct and this was the way to end the play. A good director has to have hundreds and thousands of thoughts and impulses about where to take a show and its characters. You have that many thoughts and impulses....some are going to be wrong. You have to trust the actors you cast to know their characters!
BLAH BLAH BLAH
#13re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 10:54am
Wow, thanks everybody you guys are a big help
Well, my situation is that ,for AIDA, the director just..isn't really trying. Don't get me wrong, he's a really fun guy and all, and when we did The Sound of Music, he had the best ideas, and when we did YAGMCB. But because of the music of AIDA, the show calls for a more mature cast, and because of this we got all teenagers ages 13-17, good performers who cand handle themselves well instead of the usual younger kids. But since we have a cast of older kids than usual, the director just sort of stops directing and, I don't want to say makes us direct because we certainly don't, but he just sort of...leaves us. And, it's pretty early in the rehearsal schedule now, so we don't want to appear diva-like so early in the game because it's possible that he's just starting to come up with ideas.
BUT, this sort of ties into the previous discussion about race in AIDA. It's an all-white cast except for a few black male dancers, and of course with AIDA, we want to show a racial difference, which is kind of hard with 2 white people. But even though we're toning my skin more, it doesn't seem enough because now he wants to eliminate the original idea of a color theme to promote a difference you know?
I dunno, I guess we'll wait a couple of more rehearsals then ask whats up. Politely and privately and non-diva like.
Thaaank you all!
"It's a great feeling of power to be naked in front of people. We're happy to watch actual incredible graphic violence and gore, but as soon as somebody's naked it seems like the public goes a bit bananas about the whole thing."
#14re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 11:00amYeah I agree, pull him aside and quietly discuss it with him. If you ahve a good relationship with him he should respect your opinions and take them into consideration. He may not act on them, but he will know that you are dedicated and that you care about your role. Break a Leg dear
"All the while making faces like a baby platypus who forget to take some Beano before eating a chimichanga." FindingNamo in reference to Jessica Simpson's singing.
mikewood
Broadway Star Joined: 4/7/05
#15re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 11:05am
I'm doing a show right now - Fiddler - and our Tevye seems to have forgotten that he's not the director. He's constantly telling us what to do. It's really annoying. >>>
Oh, now that's a totally different animal. Actors who try to direct other actors are the worst type of actors. And I'll tell you, these actors who try to tell others how to do their thing generally have their own problems to deal with.
I really resist giving other actors direction during shows (And don't be fooled when someone offers "ADVICE" they are actually offering "DIRECTION" and this is WRONG.) I often get asked for notes from actors, especially from those I worked with before and I really resist this. I have to admit, even I don't always consider it appropriate, I will offer my two cents if asked but I will also preface the discussion you need to talk to the director but here's my opinion. Never offer unsolicited advice to a fellow actor.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
mikewood
Broadway Star Joined: 4/7/05
#16re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 11:15am
I hope don't bore people to tears with my anecdotes but...I recently stage managed "The Children's Hour" with a very good director but a person with limited knowledge working with kids. I on the other hand have fifteen years working with kids, including troubled teens and had special insight. I wound up overstepping my bounds several times, taking the director aside. In this case, he really appreciated because of my unique life experience in the material.
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Updated On: 5/16/05 at 11:15 AM
#17re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 1:36pmUnfortunately, one really can never argue with the director in a professional situation unless they're looking to get fired! The director is your boss, and you have to treat him as such. However, if you happen to have a personal relationship with him/her, if you're polite and tactful about it, in PRIVATE you can sometimes nudge them a little.
sparky310
Featured Actor Joined: 11/10/03
#18re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 2:24pmthe director should establish from the beginning of the rehearsal process the way in which "contributions" from actors will be accepted, but general rule is wait until you can have a private moment with the director to share..dont create a situation where you have to disagree in front of the cast..it makes you look bad and the director is unneccesarily put on the spot..
pndmnd
Broadway Star Joined: 4/3/04
#19re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 4:42pmOn a similar note, NEVER EVER say "My character wouldn't do that" or "My character wouldn't do it that way". That is part of the actor's job--to find a way to make the director's vision work.
#20re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 6:08pmyes.......plain and simple, if you want to keep your job....YES
It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story...
AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956
#21re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/16/05 at 9:14pm
So here's the story:
After rehearsal today, I went into his little office thing to talk privately. I think I behaved well, here's what I said:
Me: Hey Rob, mind if I talk to you for a second? I'll be quick, promise.
Rob: Yeah, no problem Tiff. What's up?
Me: Well, I had a couple of questions about the show..
Rob: Shoot
Me: Now, I don't mean to sound rude ,because you know I don't want to be all diva-like-
Rob: Ahh don't worry about it, give it to me straight
Me: Well, the thing is, I thought the story of Aida was to show a strong love and a racial difference between the two countries. Right?
Rob: Well, yeah. But didn't I already tell you, we're toning your skin a lot and putting heavy black eye make up.
Me: Yes, we talked about that already, and I think that will really work. But remember that suggestion you told me you were working on about having color-coded costumes?
Rob: Oh yeah...
Me: Well, whatever happened to that?
Rob: The thing is, we're not really sure if the audience will understand that.
Me: Well, I may have a suggestion if the audience doesn't catch on..
Rob: Please suggest away. I'm willing to hear suggestions, especially after your help with The Sound of Music last summer.
Me: Thanks...well, what if, in the playbill, we do a sort of documentary type of thing, doesn't have to be long, 1-2 pages I'm sure will be enough, where we can quote you talking about the racial division of the two countries and the ideas you installed.
Rob:...That could really work, good idea! I'll talk to Ash about it (Ashley p.s. is the editor of the playbill stuff)
Me: Thanks for listening!
Rob: Oh, anytime. Anything else you'd like to bring up?
Me: Well, one more thing. Again, I hope you don't find this rude or obnixious, but, are you okay? You just seem not really into it lately, and I know it's just the beginning of the rehearsals and all, but you had great great ideas for The Sound of Music, imagine what you could so with Aida!
Rob: Ahhh I see. No worries, I know you're only trying to help. Which is good, I appreciate the concern. I'm okay, just really really tired lately. I apologize, I haven't really been doing my job-
Me: Oh no, it's not that you havent been doing your job-
Rob: nah I really havent. Time to switch back to coffee, eh?
Me:..always helped me get through a day
Rob: Well not anymore it doesn't, your off of coffee, got to keep your voice all well for those belts. How's that coming along?
Me: Pretty good, still working on a technique with Diana, but otherwise doing good I think.
Rob: Great. so, anything else while we're at this/
Me: Nope, nothing. Thanks for understanding Rob, and thanks for your time.
Rob: Really, anytime. I need to know that you guys are always comfortable with what I'm giving you. Make the show fun for the audience and the actors.
Me: yeah, I can't wait for you to get on that coffee. It's gonna be a great show
Rob: Yeah it is, a dream job. And now I must leave you since it's time to get the dancers out. Thanks again Tiff.
Me: No, thank you. Bye!
Rob: ciiiao
....uber long sorry
But from what I can remember, I think it well...
"It's a great feeling of power to be naked in front of people. We're happy to watch actual incredible graphic violence and gore, but as soon as somebody's naked it seems like the public goes a bit bananas about the whole thing."
mikewood
Broadway Star Joined: 4/7/05
#22re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/17/05 at 9:26amNothing like a happy ending! :)
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#23re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/17/05 at 9:59am
Theatre is a collaborative art. Any director worth his salt will accept your input. However, that does not oblige him/her to implement your ideas. It is his/her call and you will have to live with both minor triumphs and situations in which you feel things are not as they should be. Remember - you are not out front and this production is not your vision.
Select your battles wisely. Don't argue about every little cross to stage right or costume accessory. Be aware of your role in the production - if you're a cameo/walk-on with a few lines, understand that your input may not be taken with the same import as somebody in a major role with a history of collaboration with the director. Trust between collaborators is earned and that can take some time.
"Love Life. Live." Michael Bennett
#24re: Would it be wrong to argue with the director?
Posted: 5/17/05 at 11:00am
aw you are sooo lucky!
he sounds like a great director! wish mine was more like him...
i also have a problem with the way i'm being told to portray something, but my director's so stubborn and egotistical that you couldn't suggest anything without being mocked and belittled and shouted at and probably thrown out of the show. 
(i'm not just exaggerating most of us think this apart form his 'clique')
also theatre where i live is so political.
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