Jungle Book DRAMA!- Page 3
Jungle Book DRAMA!
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#50Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:07pm
I think there's a difference between demonstrating racism and documenting it.
Disney Studios have always incorporated the culture of the times into their movies. The examples of racism (and subservient women, Gays, etc...) most of the time, are reflections of what was acceptable during those time periods. The difference between how Indians are portrayed in Pocahontas and how they're portrayed in Peter Pan is one example of that.
They have not always been perfect (Song of the South????)
#51Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:09pm
I think Song of the South is actually a very progressive take on race, considering the time it was made. Uncle Remus is a much more sympathetic and good character than the boy's white family and portrayed as the only real friend and caretaker this boy has.
Taz, the character of King Louie is not in the book, per se, but the scene in which Mowgli is kidnapped by the troublemaking monkeys is, and was the basis of the sequence in the film.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
sanda
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/10/04
#52Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:16pmstill don't understand what a big deal this is. His ranting is way too long.
#53Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:17pm
Thanks Yero.
John, I think your point is quite salient, and the way films reflect where we are at a given time is my favorite thing about the medium.
It's a time capsule of sorts.
This of course is a double edged sword because movies by nature are, in the slang du jour, unreliable narrators.
....but the world goes 'round
Updated On: 6/12/13 at 04:17 PM
#54Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:19pm
I second what Tazber said, have genuinely learned so much from this thread.
I saw Jungle Book in the movie theaters when it first came out in '67. My 11-year-old self had no clue who Louis Prima was and I assumed then, and continued to assume till today when I read this thread, that the character of King Louie was black and that the actor playing him was black. Show's what I know.
I think with the movie Lion King, some amends were made on the racial front: James Earl Jones was noble, Jeremy Irons was evil, and the half-evil hyenas were mostly multi-culti.
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#55Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:23pm
I think Song of the South is actually a very progressive take on race
Song of the South gets criticized for what it didn't portray... Plantation workers' lives were really that easy and carefree?
Updated On: 6/12/13 at 04:23 PM
#56Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:24pm
Well, no, and that is a fair criticism. But what it DOES portray is very kind to the black race, which was not the norm for 1946.
John, I think your point is quite salient, and the way films reflect where we are at a given time is my favorite thing about the medium.
Me, too, and especially with the Disney films, now that I am old enough to appreciate them for their historical value. A regular output of films aimed at children made by mostly the same group of men every couple years for decades, all full of pop culture trends and references and stars of the day, are fascinating when you watch them as a product of their time.
I love pop culture history and to me, Disney films are each their own little time capsule, like tazber said.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Updated On: 6/12/13 at 04:24 PM
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#57Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:25pm
the half-evil hyenas were mostly multi-culti.
But they were all minorities.
finebydesign
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/17/07
#58Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:27pm
"still don't understand what a big deal this is. His ranting is way too long."
I feel like he's saying a lot of different things. Her response to the issues are really ballsy and interesting.
The idea that she freely uses culture and people as influence or even dressing is hardly offensive. The "culture" or lack-thereof we have in this country all stems from riffs on other culture. It may be superficial at times but everything we have and do here is derivative.
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#59Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:28pm
very kind to the black race
I honestly can't remember and it's very hard to find he movie anywhere, but who was kind to the Black race in that movie? I don't remember any any characters that weren't Black.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#60Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:30pmHe was certainly the happiest former slave you've ever seen!
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#61Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:30pm
The idea that she freely uses culture and people as influence or even dressing is hardly offensive.
Unless you're a member of that culture and consistently feel "invisible" when portrayed in someone's work.
To be fair, he specifically said that he'd always been tolerant of how she incorporated Asians and South Asians in her work - until this interview when she implied that she was going to put blinders on to any examples of racism or misogyny.
Updated On: 6/12/13 at 04:30 PM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#62Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:31pm
"still don't understand what a big deal this is. His ranting is way too long."
Some issues can not be covered in 140 characters or fewer.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#63Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:34pm
The movie is on YouTube. You have to watch it in parts, but the entire thing is there. That is how I saw it.
The little white boy who is the main character in the movie, is bullied and beaten by the other white children and mostly ignored or scolded by his white family. He finds a friend and caretaker in Uncle Remus, the plantation worker. The movie portrays the black characters (Remus and the other workers) as the good guys, who actually treat the boy with kindness, unlike the white characters.
Yes, jolly plantation workers are insulting and offensive by today's standards, but by 1946 standards, the movie was progressive.
Not to mention, Walt personally described James Baskett (the actor who played Uncle Remus) as the best actor he ever knew and campaigned hard for him to be honored by the segregated Hollywood community. Partly because of Walt's campaigning, Baskett was awarded an honorary Academy Award for Song of the South, becoming the first black man to receive an Oscar.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#64Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:37pmThat does not change for a minute the fact that the myth of the happy plantation worker (aka slaves) is a racist construct through and through. These issues are complicated and it's not made any better when a white person like Mary Zimmerman says she's choosing to ignore the complication and well, who gets to say what's racist ANYWAY?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#65Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:37pm
Yes, jolly plantation workers are insulting and offensive by today's standards, but by 1946 standards, the movie was progressive.
I'm just not sure that's right. For sure, in 1946 anyone (particularly African-American) who was displeased with it would have less of a platform to vent about it.
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#66Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:38pm
The little white boy who is the main character in the movie, is bullied and beaten by the other white children and mostly ignored or scolded by his white family. He finds a friend and caretaker in Uncle Remus, the plantation worker. The movie portrays the black characters (Remus and the other workers) as the good guys, who actually treat the boy with kindness, unlike the white characters.
Read with a tone of friendly sarcasm:
How nice! A male "mammy"! Isn't great how those Black people take such great care of our children? What would we do without 'em?
#67Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:40pmNamo, not contesting your main point, but somewhere on here I read that Mary Zimmerman is actually half-Asian.
#68Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:41pm
By 1946 filmmaking standards (which were, admittedly, white standards).
Plenty of black people at the time found minstrelsy and blackface offensive, but you can't deny that it was the popular entertainment at one time. The vast majority of the (white) audience did not think of it as offensive, they just found it entertaining. And producers did not hire Al Jolson because they hated black people, they hired him because he was popular.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#70Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:43pm
"Plenty of black people at the time found minstrelsy and blackface offensive, but you can't deny that it was the popular entertainment at one time. The vast majority of the (white) audience did not think of it as offensive, they just found it entertaining."
Which is exactly what systematic racism looks like. Of course the white audiences didn't find coon shows offensive, they enjoyed laughing at the black stereotypes.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#71Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:44pmFor its time, it does. A film made in white Hollywood by a bunch of white men portraying the black characters as the sympathetic good guys?
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
John Adams
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/1/13
#72Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:45pm
somewhere on here I read that Mary Zimmerman is actually half-Asian.
Zimmerman's ethnic heritage isn't at issue.
#73Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:45pm
Which is exactly what systematic racism looks like. Of course the white audiences didn't find coon shows offensive, they enjoyed laughing at the black stereotypes.
Well, yeah, of course, but they didn't realize why they enjoyed it.
I am not defending minstrel shows. Of course they were offensive, even if people didn't quite recognize them as such then. I'm just saying that you have to judge any piece of pop culture as a product of its time.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#74Jungle Book DRAMA!
Posted: 6/12/13 at 4:46pmInterestingly, Al Jolson was an outspoken proponent of equal rights and well-beloved by the African American community at the time.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
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