Woman of the Year- Page 4
Woman of the Year
#75Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/28/12 at 9:53pmGaveston, surely the repetition of the word "wonderful" is deliberate and to enhance the comedic monotony? I doubt it because Fred Ebb couldn't think of anything else!
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#76Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/28/12 at 9:55pmNo, thank you, loliveve. It's wonderful to be able to share in a space where people remember and appreciate her.
#77Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/28/12 at 10:18pm
Gaveston, surely the repetition of the word "wonderful" is deliberate and to enhance the comedic monotony? I doubt it because Fred Ebb couldn't think of anything else!
No, actually, it's in there because the audience kept laughing at Cooper's deadpan delivery. Take a listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omRKt2q8Zn0
In a 6 minute song, there are three--count 'em three--jokes that actually pay off:
1. a cheap topical joke about Reagan liking jelly beans and serving them at White House dinners;
2. an equally cheap but more vulgar reference to finding your teenager daughter's diaphragm;
3. one honest character joke (repeated twice, the second time with a slight variation) about Lauren Bacall's affair with Cooper's husband.
I submit to you the above is not evidence that Fred Ebb had "other things to say." Could he have made up other words? Of course. But that's not the same thing.
EVERY OTHER LAUGH in that lengthy song consists of the audience laughing at Cooper's dry delivery of the phrase "What's so wonderful?". Of course, Fred Ebb was smart enough to capitalize on a good thing. But that's expedience, not genius.
There's no evidence that K&E really had anything to say in that song. They just had great casting, because Cooper manages to make Bacall look and sound very good even while Coopie steals the scene.
I think it's fine to admire Kander & Ebb. They are certainly in my top five of modern theater songwriters. But that doesn't mean everything they turned out was brilliant. Sometimes they got lucky (and were smart enough to let well enough alone--I'll grant them that much).
(ETA compare "Greener" to "Class (CHICAGO) or "Two Ladies (CABARET). THOSE are songs where the writers have something to say.)
Updated On: 8/28/12 at 10:18 PM
#78Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/28/12 at 11:20pm^Fair enough. You have a point!
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#79Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/28/12 at 11:33pmSorry. I swear I wasn't trying to "win" or anything. But I truly love lyrics and I really enjoyed the discussion, jay.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#81Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/28/12 at 11:58pm
^^^It certainly was, Phyllis.
I think it's fixed now, thank you.
I have no idea how I screwed that up, but hopefully I can avoid such errors in the future. (There's another YouTube clip with the entire scene; I chose the one with just the song.)
Updated On: 8/28/12 at 11:58 PM
#82Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/29/12 at 12:16am
"As for "One of the Girls...", why? Just, why? All I could think while watching it is that while wrong for the character, Bacall looks better in lighter colors."
I think it's an awful song--partly though because I remember my sister having to do an awful routine to it in dance class when she was 8 or so. But the staging, and everything is just... kinda awful. I can only imagine Field's choreography would be an improvement.
#83Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/29/12 at 12:23amIt would have to be, Eric. Bacall could never sing, but as non-musical film stars retired to Broadway go, her dancing wasn't terrible. So what was with the high-school choreography? Did somebody decide her character was too butch to dance like a woman?
#84Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/29/12 at 12:32amThe song already has regrettable lyrics that could easily become gay cliche jokes--and the choreography adds to that. It seems like a Family Guy satire. Tony Charmoli's main credits seem to be directing one women shows for Shirley MacLaine and others, which may be why he was hired for a Bacall vehicle--and director Robert Moore's only other real musical hit was Promises, Promises (granted, which I love, but is a show you hear more about Bennett's musical staging than the actual direction of).
#85Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/29/12 at 1:35am
First off, thank all of you for this fantastic discussion of a somewhat forgotten show. I have really enjoyed reading all of this and watching the clips.
I first learned about WOTY when I was a kid in rural Kentucky because I bought an old edition of BEST PLAYS at a flea market, and it happened to be the same year. I devoured that book and read about everything as if I were reading a fact book about life in the Oz...it was magic to me. Years and years later I finally got to hear the score when I bought the cd. For my money, and know that I have never actually seen it on stage, I think the score is quite strong. 'It Isn't Working' in particular comes across on cd as incredibly exciting, the ballads are beautiful, and forgive me, but I really love the title song, campy as it is.
Hopefully, Encores will get around to this one at some point....maybe Meryl Streep or Susan Sarandon or Glen Close would do a concert run. A star could still make the material work I bet.
And all the amazing information about Marilyn Cooper has been especially wonderful to hear....I love performers like her. Anybody remember her appearance on The Nanny as Fran's paternal grandmother?
#86Woman of the Year
Posted: 8/29/12 at 3:50am
GavestonPS, it's been great reading your memories of Marylin Cooper and your obsession with lyrics, lol.
I am just glad this thread has brought a "new" star to my attention.
Auggie27
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/13/03
#87"I Chug-a-Lug Brews When I Lose on the Nags" (who doesn't?)
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:43am
I'm one of the girls who's one of the boys,
Enjoying the jokes and the smokes and the noise.
You wanna go fishing?
Well, hand me a reel.
Majored in poker, so shut up and deal.
I'm one of the gals who's one of the guys.
Hey, put up your dukes and
I'll blacken your eyes.
Behind all the Gucci and Pucci and pearls,
I'm one of the boys.
Although I'm one of the girls.
I'm one of the does who's one of the stags.
I chug-a-lug brews when I lose on the nags.
Forget the Max Factor you find on my face.
For barber shop fours I'm a fabulous bass.
I'm one of the queens who's one of the drones.
Just hand me the dice and I'll rattle your bones.
In spite of the dress, the finesse and the poise,
I'm one of the girls who's really one of the boys.
I'm one of the dames who's one of the knights.
My Friday night treat is a seat for the fights.
I love to go stroke with a varsity crew.
You wanna play snooker? Well, chalk up your cue.
I'm one of the Janes who's one of the Joes
Here, hold my cigar while I powder my nose.
I've layers of lacquer a lady enjoys,
I've earrings and bracelets and various toys,
But I love when I've slipped into ripped corduroys,
Because I'm one of the girls.
(One of the girls.)
One of the girls.
(One of the girls.)
One of the girls who's one of the boys.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
Updated On: 8/29/12 at 08:43 AM
#88I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 7:34pm
I'm rather biased when it comes to Kander and Ebb, because I think they're just terrific in almost every way. But both gentlemen claimed at one point or another, that WOMAN OF THE YEAR was not their best work, though professional, just not very inspired. (They loved working with "Jimmy" Bacall and Peter Stone, though.) The score is, like most of THE ACT, a guilty pleasure sort of thing. There are some wonderful songs, like "Sometimes a Day Goes By" and "The Grass is Always Greener", just like THE ACT has "Money Tree", "City Lights" and "My Own Space." But then there is some silly stuff, and some very odd things. (The cat number with Fred Ebb voicing the animated cat.)
I do think, however, that WOMAN... is a more consistent and better crafted work than the other Bacall show, APPLAUSE. A lot of APPLAUSE seems like filler. (Also, the source material of APPLAUSE warranted a better stage adaptation. Bacall would have been EVEN BETTER if the show had been.)
#89I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 7:51pm
You're welcome, Vera.
jv92, I can't really defend APPLAUSE except to say it showed off Bacall very, very well and provided a great supporting turn for Penny Fuller. (Speaking of supporting actors, Fuller was as great in dramatic roles as Cooper was in comic ones. She was also, in my personal experience, just as lovely a person.)
DAME
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/15/04
#90I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 7:58pmThey really don't write star vehicles anymore do they? Shame.
HUSSY POWER!
------ HUSSY POWER!
#91I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:14pmNo, they don't, DAME, particularly not for middle-aged ladies, it seems. I have a fairly well-known friend who is at the age when she should transition into roles like DOLLY and MAME, but where are they? Everything seems geared toward pre-teens.
DAME
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/15/04
#92I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:17pm
Composers don't seem to have muses anymore. I guess the Minnelli, Kander and Ebb one was one of the last ones.
I really think it is a shame there is no market these days for star driven musicals.
HUSSY POWER!
------ HUSSY POWER!
#93I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:21pm
Of course, as we've discussed elsewhere, we also have no true theater stars. So it's sort of a vicious cycle. No roles for stars, no stars, no roles, etc. and so forth.
Fortunately, a lot of great lady actors are getting their own shows on basic cable. But you and I will agree, I trust, that those aren't the same as live musicals.
#94I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:24pm
Jv I think I might soewhat agree with your Applause comparison--except that, judging from the various clips of both shows, Ron Field's staging and choreography for Applause is really quite strong. I wonder if they tried to get him to do Woman from the start and not just, as mentioned here, help fix the tour?
(And thanks to this thread, I realize I *did* have the pleasure of seeing Marilyn Miller live, though I was pretty young and scarcely remember it. Our dance school went to Vancouver to see the Tommy Tune/Anne Reinking touring production of Bye Bye Birdie. I remember her, like the other leads, being VERY strong and charismatic even if I wasn't all that impressed with the musical overall--that was in my young, extremely snobby "It's not Sondheim" stage).
DAME, that's a fair point, and K&E probably did some of the last ones, really (The Rink, Spider Woman). I suppose Sunset Blvd and some other shows count, but...
#95I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:25pmEric, I wasn't talking about the staging as much as the work itself. APPLAUSE's staging seems far superior, despite a really mediocre score and book.
DAME
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/15/04
#96I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:33pmI think I am going to make a effort to seek out anything out there on "Woman Of The Year" . Obviously those clips have a source. It was a very special time in my life. Getting feklempt.
HUSSY POWER!
------ HUSSY POWER!
#97I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:36pmSorry, didn't mean to imply that you were at all. I just thought it deserved to be pointed out that I think that played a part in the responses to each show (although of course the Applause TV movie is pretty bad--and most people now are judging the shows mostly from the cast albums). Of course both shows ran for around the same amount of time--but a lot of mediocre shows have been saved by superior staging.
#98I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:45pm
I'm going to deliberately use one of the most cringeworthy lyrics from APPLAUSE:
"Now you've entered the asylum:
This profession's unique!
Actors are children
Playing hide and ego seek."
Now compare that hideous quatrain to the lyric Auggie very kindly typed out for us above. There's no question that every single line of "One of the Girls" is better crafted than Adams' lines above.
AND YET, I'd argue that Adams' horrible "hide and ego" seek joke actually conveys more content than the entire K&E song. It may not be new content, it many not be surprising or intriguing, but it at least has a point of view, however cliched.
By contrast, "One of the Girls" is merely a list of traditional male activities, cleverly rhymed. It tells us absolutely nothing about the character (except that she's a tomboy), it tells us nothing about why she is the way she is, it doesn't even tell us if acting mannish is a benefit or a detriment in her life. It simply lists a serious of gender cliches that are just as hackneyed as actors-as-crazy-children.
So which is the better lyric? Depends on whether you value style over content.
#99I'm the WOOOOOMAN...OF. THE. YEEEEEEAAAR!!!
Posted: 8/29/12 at 8:47pmTo add to the above, that is why every line and every lyric of WOTY just screams to me, "They had a hit with Betty the last time! People will pay to see her play a strong woman who chooses love."
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