"Fans" of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals- Page 4
"Fans" of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
#75re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:09pmbecause I have different taste than you does not make me ignorant. I just like Sondheim better. It doesn't mean I don't like ANY "Golden Age" stuff.
I know this groc'ry clerk...
#76re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:10pmWasn't calling you ignorant dear.
colleen_lee
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/16/05
#77re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:11pm
Much of it is exposure and what you've become accustomed to. Musical devices which were once new and exciting become old hat, and styles ebb and flow.
Don't forget, when Stravinsky debuted The Rite of Spring the audience started a freaking riot because the piece was considered so unconventional. Stravinsky is downright traiditional to most of our ears today.
For kiddos who have been raised on 'NSync, and other trite pop music, the harmonies, orchestrations and vocal stylings of Aida, RENT, Wicked, etc. are going to be more familiar, more comfortable, and more "hip" while the standards of R&H are going to sound bland to many on first listen. It's just the inevitable evolution of music, or of any art form really.
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
Updated On: 5/13/06 at 06:11 PM
#78re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:14pm
See, I don't know if I can buy the whole "but they entered into musicals through Rent or Wicked or Ave. Q so it's not thier fault." So? I was brought into musicals through Phantom, Joseph..., Starlight Express and Cats. Doesn't make me an ALW freak today! 
I fell in love with those shows at the time, sure...(hey! I was 10.) but I loved the art form, and taught myself as much as I could about other musicals. (One of my friends was actually SHOCKED after he bought the new PJ Game and we were singing along and I knew all the words!)
I don't think you have to like ALL the Golden Age musicals in order to be a fan. But I don't think acknowledging thier existance is really enough either. It's like saying you like baseball but will ONLY watch a Yankees game. You're not a baseball fan, you're a Yankees fan.
www.kickfornick.com
RentBoy86
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/15/05
#79re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:14pmHow the hell am I ignorant. Because I'm young?
mrkringas
Broadway Star Joined: 9/28/05
#80re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:36pm
The way I see it....
Is there anything as daring today as R+H insisting on including "You've Got to be Carefully Taught" in South Pacific?
And before you all start screaming "Rent!", I dont think Rent having homeless people, homosexuality and AIDS is really comparable. Rent celebrates the old Village and a specific time. Yes it exposed some "edgey" material to a Broadway audience. But it never once confronts the audience with as hard a hometruth as Lt Cable did.
That songs speaks to the audience back then (and arguably still does in todays climate. Its not just race its religion too) and challenges their own attitudes.
.... and that is why the classics matter.
#81re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 6:44pm
Does any of this really matter?
You can't complain about the taste people may or may not have. It's one thing not to listen to a variety of musicals ("Golden Age", Contemporary etc) and decide you don't like something, but if someone has taken the time to do thier homework and they still don't like those musicals, who cares? The classics aren't going to die just because every musical theatre lover doesn't appreciate them. Let people like what they like.
I don't understand how a person can saw they are a bigger musical theatre person because they love the "Golden Age" shows. As long as someone is enjoying theatre, and it's adding something to their lives, WHO CARES?
mrkringas
Broadway Star Joined: 9/28/05
FoscasBohemianDream
Broadway Star Joined: 1/20/06
#83re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 7:10pm
I agree that certain shows today hardly confront the audience the way some classics did. I mean, Rent *DOES NOT* confront anything. The straight couple survives at the end, the lesbian couple can't be taken too seriously because one of the lesbians is always flirting with the straight white guy who doesn't have AIDS by the way, the Latina girl is a heroine addict of course, the gay guy does die unlike the straight girl, I mean what is progressive about it? (Major threadjack but I just had to get it out of my system, oh and these aren't my ideas, this statement about Rent can be found in Sarah Schulman's brilliant book "Stagestruck")
My point is that Golden Age musicals broke rules, they established guidelines, they pushed boundaries, and you would not have Wicked if two people called Rodgers & Hammerstein hadn't written a little thingy called Oklahoma! that incorporated dialogue, song, and dance to tell a story. Neither would you have a cast recording of Rent, if this little show Oklahoma hadn't been so big that it was the first Broadway show to have a cast recording. I personally feel people need to respect these shows and understand what they did to Broadway today.
algy
Broadway Star Joined: 10/19/05
#84re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 7:16pm
I'm just grateful people are coming into theatres. I'll go and see anything and everything that goes into my local theatre, I may not like all of it, but I can pass a judgement on something that I've seen.
I've not seen all the "Golden Age" musicals because by the time I was old enough to appreciate them, they were either out of production or my parents had already seen them (they don't do repeated viewings). What I've seen I like - my rental list is full of old musical films that I want to see, and I'm broke because I buy theatre tickets with my spare cash. Thats the way I am, but not everyone is the same. I'm trying to get my boyfriend into theatre - his family just don't do it (whereas my family started taking me to panto when I was 6) - and it's difficult as I have to pick something accessible for him, that won't trigger all his prejudices (why are they just bursting into song? Why are they dancing? Are they all gay?) and so it forces me to look at things differently. His first musical was Joseph, because he had the cassette tape of the London Revival when he was little so he knew all the songs, so it was a little step from knowing the music to seeing it on stage. His second was The Producers, because I desparately wanted to see it, but also because he's a history student and he likes satire. He didn't get the theatre in jokes, but loved Springtime for Hitler and the premise of the show and he can still sing a few lines of "I want to be a producer" and will occasionnaly start saying "Bialystock and Bloom" in a faux Swedish accent. Next I plan on taking him to see Starlight Express - he likes trains and I think that and the skating may get past the fact that its all singing. Also when Avenue Q opens, I'll take him to that - puppets that are rude will be right up his street (and again I'm desparate to see it). What I'm trying to say from this, is that not everyone is conditioned to like theatre the same way. I'm hopeful that in years to come he'll be a great guy to go to the theatre with, but for now I have to be careful what he sees - he's not ready for the "traditional" musical.
I'm not even going to go into which musical sparked my new enthusiasm for theatre (because y'all will hate me for it) when I went from liking it to loving it, but the point is that it did, although for me, it was more of a re-awakening.
I'm not much of a Sondheim fan, though I like Company, but I'm willing to go and see more, because he's important and many do love hime and I want to see what it is that they love (all recommendations gratefully received), but I love me some Rogers and Hammerstein. I was in the band for a watered down version of Caberet at school (we kept the abortion, but lost some of the antisemetism and some of the secondary plotting) and when we first started it, I hated the music - all those off beats - but by the end I loved it, which is why I'm willing to give anything a chance, not just once, but on re-listening. I'm just gutted that I didn't get here sooner - there are so many shows that I wish I'd seen that are out of production now, or that I had the chance to see when I was younger but passed over.
Oops. Long post - Summary - Golden Age is important, but it's not for everyone straight away.
#85re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 7:18pm
Respecting and liking are very different things.
I doubt there is one person on this board who denies that without such and such there wouldn't be such and such. I would agree that there are some who haven't listened to (or even wanted to) "Golden Age" musicals. But they'll get there. Tastes change over time and a love of a popular show today can (and ususally does) lead to a search into all things Broadway. Teens and youngsters need to experience things in thier own time.
Theatre knowledge isn't built into a person.
Jazzysuite82
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/6/05
#86re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 8:08pm
FoscasBohemianDream, I think you may be dating yourself as a youngin' by your comments on Rent. I HATE Rent, but people are forgetting it was written 15 years ago. Jonathan Larson was responding in the in a similar way as Tony Kushner. Of course one is leagues better, but to say that Rent wasn't new risky and edgy is to be ill informed. At the time it WAS something. It's just gotten old.
ANd Krigas there are plenty of playwrights and composers writing things that are waaay more confrontational than South Pacific. I say look at Anyone Can Whistle which deals with racism and sooo much more. Sure that was 1964, but there's a lot more of that work going on today. Just because it's not playing on Broadway now doesn't mean it's not being talked about.
jonartdesigns
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/04
#87re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 10:54pmi'm relatively young, and I do thoroughly enjoy the golden age musicals but i must say that writing and voice quality has improved leaps and bounds in more modern shows (although revival recordings fixthe latter), and some golden age songs are incredibly clunky. But alas you can't top songs like those were the good old days,Whatever lola wants, and brotherhood of man
"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel
pandajen14
Stand-by Joined: 3/22/06
#88re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 11:01pmI quite enjoy golden age musicals. It's the much older musicals that I have a hard time listening to. The scores are brilliant, but the cast can be very hard to listen to, espeicially the sopranos. (Gilbert and Sullivan shows are notorious for this problem; Rogers and Hart/Hammerstein can be accused too)
"Writing should be easy, like a monkey driving a speedboat..." -[title of show]
"I'm tired of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're going and meet up with them later." -Mitch Hedberg
#89re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 11:35pm
Some of you will hate me for what I am about to say.
I try to not really espouse the feelings that I have deep down inside about some of the modern shows that have attracted such enormous followings but sometimes it wells up and gushes out, so here goes...
I hate Rent. I hate is because it has such a huge and faithful following. I hate it because these ture believers think this show is some some sort of masterpiece. It isn't.
The music is nothing better than dozens of small, off-Broadway shows that I have been dragged to over the past three decades. The lyrics are pedestrian. "How do you measure, measure a year? How about loooooooveeee." Gag me with a spoon from the restaurant the guy who wrote this worked in.
There is nothing revolutionary about Rent. La Boheme was adapted in the 20's, in the 30's in the 40's in the 50's... need I go on? It is a great opera which every aspiring composer has considered adapting.
And the message? CBS did dozens of "message" made-for-TV movies that told the same stories. "Dawn, Portrait of a Teenage Runaway" etc. It's been done so many times. This is not a landmak musical.
Except in the numbers of people that it has drawn.
And how did they find out about it? The composer died. That was the lead story of every artice written about this show. An obscure composer dies on dress rehearsal night.
Who has the guts to pan the show when the eager-faced cast goes out and "does one for Johnathon?" Hell, I'd have given ita rave. Then gone home and drunk myself silly.
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=972787#3631451
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=963561#3533883
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955158#3440952
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954269#3427915
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955012#3441622
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954344#3428699
JustABroadwaybaby2
Broadway Star Joined: 4/6/06
#90re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 11:38pm
Does this board echo my favorite board, Unpopular opinions you hold? I think it has sort of turned into that!
I agree with some of the people here, however.
Let's not murder people that don't like the things you do!
Sorry for offense.
"I'm thinking about how if you took the W in
answer, and the H in ghost, and the extra A in aardvark, and the T in listen, you could keep saying WHAT but no one would ever hear you because the whole word would be silent."
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JustChillin8908
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/31/06
#91re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 11:39pm
I think I may have become too used to current recording techniques and it's hard to accept something new. I will also be the first to admit that I am no way highly educated in theatre, in fact I just recently became a fan. My collection of Cast Recordings is rather small with no real classics. I'm sure over time I will learn to respect if not enjoy "golden age" musicals.
Updated On: 5/13/06 at 11:39 PM
Jazzysuite82
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/6/05
#92re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/13/06 at 11:43pmallofmylife, I too hate Rent with a passion, but aparantly the musical did SOMETHING to win the pulitzer prize. I don't think jonathan's death won them that. I mean musicals don't generally get that award so I say it's got something. What do YOU think it is?
#93re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 12:04am
Until I saw the 2004 Tony's (I never knew they were one TV . . . go figure), I didn't own a single cast recording outside the Golden Age. Then I bought Wicked's OCR and it opened up an interesting new world. I think I like it, but not as much as the classics, baby.
I'll take Lerner & Loewe over Jonathon Larson or Andrew Lloyd Webber any day of the week.
Act4ever
Broadway Star Joined: 4/12/04
#94re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 12:22am
A lot of the "Golden Age" musicals are brutally long. I really like a lot of the scores (ie. Okalahoma, King and I, My Fair Lady...etc.) But to actually sit through them starts to get taxing after a little while.
Isn't this topic like saying "I'm a movie fan" -- and then someone getting mad because you don't like old classic films... movies are movies, and musicals are musicals... if you are a fan of some of each you are a movie fan and you are a musical fan. Right?
#95re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 12:51am
I am an obsessed die-hard Wicked fanatic, and I'm proud of it. But it's not the only musical I love. Some of my other favorites:
My Fair Lady, The Sound of Music, The Music Man, West Side Story, Gypsy, Camelot, South Pacific...
#96re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:46am
Jazzysuite82, welcome to my rent-free world. A world where young kids dream of seeing Cervaris in Sweeney fourty-nine times and talk endlessly about who was the best Sally Bowles....
I really believe that the death of Jonathon Larson was so overwhelming that everyone got swept along. I just don't see what others see. I feel like John Adams, screaming at Congress. Does anyone see what I see?
Apparently, someone was heard to mutter at the funeral of Elvis Presley "wise career move." The death of the composer of Rent, as tragic as it was was the death of a man beloved by the small band of friends and actors in his new show. People die every day. And yet, this one death seems to have grown into a world-wide cult of grief. I think that in terrible times like these, when nothing seems to be going right, when 80% of the population thinks the country is heading in the wrong direction, when we have faceless godaweful governments running the FREE countries, the public finds some sort of communal satisfaction in outpourings of grief. The death of Dianna, usic stars dying in their 20's and 30's, and this unknown composer. It's contageous and perhaps this feeling of "Johnathon lives on in his music" that swept the world overwhelmed the Pulitzer committee as well.
How the heck else can you explain this? Frankly, I think Wicked is a better show than Rent and I think Wicked is isn't even up to Schwartz's usual standards (and if you know the Dorothy Parker joke I'm alluding to you'll know what I think about Wicked).
I just can't see what they see.
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=972787#3631451
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=963561#3533883
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955158#3440952
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954269#3427915
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=955012#3441622
http://www.broadwayworld.com/board/readmessage.cfm?thread=954344#3428699
#97re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 2:58am
...........
I'm a kid. Aged past my teens, but still in that category. I've seen Sweeney Todd a number of times; I think if Michael Cerveris doesn't win the Tony for that role, there is no justice. I could gladly talk about portrayals of Sally Bowles.
I am also a Rent fan. One does not come exclusively of the other, you must remember.
I take fully into stride that many people feel the way you do; not only do they dislike the show in merely not seeing what those who love it see, but also in thinking that the hype and love comes out of Jonathan Larson's death. I'm going to respectfully disagree with that, though, to each his own. I suppose I feel it's one thing to say you feel it happened such and such a way, and yet another to trivialize the issue and downplay any cause for success *other* than that, but again, to each his own, and this is hardly an argument worth having.
However, I don't see why you feel, in order to state that point, you need to use globalized sociopolitical jargon to bring it home. And even still, while I understand that people feel fans of the show, etc, banded together after Larson's death, I wonder why even the doubters and those who don't like it have difficulty seeing, if not its quality or likeability, its historical and canonical significance. And truthfully, how it can be argued that Wicked, dripping in mediocrity, barely revolutionary, been-there, done-that musical theatre is better than Rent is a bit beyond me -- but again, to each his own. However, I think it would be an unenviable task to try to argue for why Wicked has more canonical significance than does Rent.
mrkringas
Broadway Star Joined: 9/28/05
#98re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 10:23am
I am lucky enough to live in the UK and see a lot of theatre.
For that reason I am VERY familiar with challenging theatre as we get a LOT of it in the UK. A topical example that mmmm pops into mind would be "My Name is Rachel Corrie" and we all know what happened to that in New York!
However there are very few challenging *new* musicals to be seen on Broadway or the West End. Plenty of theatre but not much in the way of musical theatre that has the same bite of Cabaret, South Pacific or indeed as you say Anyone Can Whistle.
Although there is something to be said for Billy Elliot raking in the box office in London while forcing the audience to confront the social horrors that the Thatcher Government inflicted on the North. During the 1980s the Government's majority was reliant on an almost clean sweep throughout the south and home counties with Scotland, Wales and the North of England voting for the opposition. So there is a hell of a lot of political subtext in that show.
#99re: 'Fans' of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals
Posted: 5/14/06 at 11:00am
I DO think people can be fans of musicals without liking the Golden Age stuff. I think this is just a snobby reaction to a difference of taste.
Personally, I like the Golden Age shows BEST, and I may not agree with their choices... but there is room in this world for everyone. So quit being "elitist" about it.
It's just as bad as asking, "Can you really call yourself a movie fan if you don't like silent films or B&W? Or foreign cinema? Or gangster pictures?" Answer: Yes, you can.
To each his own.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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