Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
zamedy
Broadway Star Joined: 6/27/07
#1Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 1:36pm
So I've been listening, for the first time, to the OBCR of GYPSY featuring Ethel Merman. And I can't STOP listening to it.. especially her Rose's Turn. I've yet to see GYPSY in person, but this climatic ending to the show just blows me away, especially Merman's delivery. It's thrilling, it's frightening, it's maniacal. I feel it. I get it. To me, it's engrossing and entirely convincing without being.. what today's standards would say.. is a perfect vocal performance. I don't want my Rose to deliver a 'perfect vocal performance' while singing this song. It would go against everything this song is saying, in my opinion.
With that said, finally listening to this recording made me wonder why so many people have said that Bernadette Peters was miscast in the '03 revival. I never saw her in the role.. only in her moving Tony performance. But why was she apparently miscast? She's obviously a tremendously gifted actress. Too sweet to be believable? I'd love to hear other people's takes on this. For now, back to my latest obession. Cue up Track 16. Love you, Merm.
#2Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 1:45pm
"I don't want my Rose to deliver a 'perfect vocal performance' while singing this song. It would go against everything this song is saying, in my opinion."
Do yourself a favor and search youtube for Tyne Daly's performance of Rose's Turn. It's a grainy, imperfect clip, but you can see how she was a force-of-nature in the role.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
BrodyFosse123
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/27/06
#2Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 1:55pm
Having seen the 2003 Broadway revival with Peters twice and actually LOVING Sam Mendes' minimalistic staging I will admit that Peters basically 'belted' all of her lines. She seemed to SCREAM all of her dialogue throughout the entire show so her Rose always looked angry and defensive to everyone she interacted with.
Tammy Blanchard was sheer perfection as Louise/Gypsy Rose Lee. Seeing her transformation was literally a Master Class in how to play the role.
chickfila
Leading Actor Joined: 7/26/08
#3Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 2:45pmI have yet to see a live Bernadette Peters performance where she didn't have vocal problems. I've seen her in Sunday, Song/Dance, Annie Get Your Gun, Into The Woods, Gypsy, Little Night and every single time, her singing was marred - she was coughing and hourse when singing. In fact, during Song & Dance, she was singing one of the songs where she was directing her comments to her off-stage friend Viv and she coughed during it and actually apologized to Viv as one would do if one coughed while talking to someone. It was actually pretty funny. Let's see if I am 7 for 7 when I see her in Follies on the 17th.
#4Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 2:50pmI've only ever seen her performance of Rose's Turn on the Tony telecast and was not impressed at all. I just didn't get the Rose vibe from her... don't know how to say why in words!
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#5Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 3:03pmBernadette Peters didn't have the drive. She's cute, she's sweet, she's a kewpie doll, but she doesn't project the energy needed to make the audience believe that she's the mother who would put her daughter into a strip tease act.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#6Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 4:20pm
Well, I don't think anyone would say she had vocal problems in A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, lol. Although she did go somewhat flat on the last note of CLOWNS when I saw her - but pulled it off as a 'character choice', haha.
I didn't see Peters' performance - only a bootleg- and did notice that she did literally scream soooo many of her lines. Not good. I'm going to see the Lincoln Archive Video to be sure though. Of course, in Night Music she did like to deliver some of her lines this way. Perhaps it's just Bernadette....
I think her Rose's Turn Tony performance is amazing though, I LOVE the part "welll, someone tell me when is it my Turn" and her eyes etc...I enjoy BP's Gypsy cast recording immensely. I love her voice.
But perhaps her Rose's Turn, and maybe her Coming up Roses and Some People are like her CLOWNS - which transcend her performance in the show as a whole.
Yay for inconsistently with capitalising things :P.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 6/3/11 at 04:20 PM
chickfila
Leading Actor Joined: 7/26/08
#7Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 4:24pmWell, out of all of the times I saw her, vocally she sounded the best during Night Music, but it isn't a particularly challenging part vocally for the female lead.
#8Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 4:25pmyeah, I guess that was my point (that it was so easy no one would challenge)
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
egghumor
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/9/11
#9Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 10:09pm
I agree with much of what's been said here already. Yes, Tyne Daly was AMAZING, but on stage. I can't listen to cast recording of that one. I've been a long-time fan of Bernadette Peters, especially in the OB two-hander SALLY AND MARSHA with Christine Baranski, and her wondrous Witch in NTO THE WOODS. As another poster mentioned, what went on during the run if SONG & DANCE was (to me) appalling. The whole thing way beyond her ability to sustain.
I saw her GYPSY and no, her performance decidedly did NOT work for me. I usually don't care about such matters in casting, but I remembered that a dear friend of mine (a fine musical director) saw Linda Lavin in GYPSY when she replaced Tyne Daly during that production's run. He thought she did everything “right” and winning with the role, but found that her diminutive height ultimately made her Rose less forceful. I think, in addition to what's been stated already about Peters' performance, the same problem plagued Ms. Peters in THAT role. Rose is a bit of a Godzilla, and so she needs to be physically intimidating as well.
I'm with OP, the only OBCR of GYPSY I play on regular basis is Merman's.
zamedy
Broadway Star Joined: 6/27/07
#10Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 10:19pmWell said, egghumor (lol). Physically, you almost want and need your Rose to be, well, not on the shorter side. It obviously just plays better and is more convincing on the stage when she is on the taller side (although no one questions how convicing LuPone was in the role.. don't know what her height is compared to Peters'). Was Merman the tallest Rose? And is it true that she didn't have the luxury of a microphone because, at that time, they weren't used on a Broadway stage?
#11Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 10:23pm
And is it true that she didn't have the luxury of a microphone because, at that time, they weren't used on a Broadway stage?
There are some who would debate you over how much of a luxury that was.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
pinoyidol2006
Broadway Star Joined: 5/3/11
#12Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 10:30pm
I've listened to both the cast recordings of the Merman and Bernadette Gypsy. Here's what I think on their renditions of "Rose's Turn":
For me, Bernadette's Rose showed a lot more vulnerability than Merman's. That's probably why someone felt she didn't have "the Rose vibe." During "Rose's Turn," when Bernadette gets to the part where Rose is stuttering (the entire "Momma's gotta let go" sequence of the song), I really felt that there was (to borrow Greek terminology) anagnorisis--she realizes the mistakes in her actions that led her to this point of the tragedy. This, for me, makes the "Everything's coming up roses for me!" part of "Rose's Turn" all the more tragic because the you as an audience member knows that her turn isn't coming, and I felt like Bernadette's Rose knew it too. It's so devastating.
Whereas, I felt Merman's Rose still seemed blinded with determination. It seemed like Merman's Rose was still angry that she was betrayed and abandoned. During Merman's "Rose's Turn", I felt like the character still hadn't realized the mistakes she had made. It seemed as if Merman's Rose thought that her actions were unselfish and right. That is, I feel like Merman's Rose was less introspective that Bernadette's Rose. I do, however, enjoy the fierceness that she brings to the character. I don't think Bernadette's Rose achieved the same level of ferocity.
I like your imperturbable perspicacity.
#13Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/3/11 at 10:39pm
The night I went to see Bernadette play the role, she was out with vocal problems. Maureen Moore was amazing (of course she was, she's awesome), but my favorite Rose's Turn belongs to Tyne Daly.
Suck it Lupone.
CurtainPullDowner
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/4/04
#14Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 12:09am
"although no one questions how convincing LuPone was in the role" (cough)
be carefull about generalizations like that.
I also think the Merm's version is very scarey especially since she had no idea how to act the song (who would?) Sondheim and Styne and Robbins were asking her to sing a Shakespeare friggin' monologue, but they knew her raw singing power would make it thrilling, and if she tapped even a bit of manic it could work.
Merm: This Ma...Ma...Mama, is it on the beat or off it?
Steve: It's a breakdown Ethel, it comes when you feel it, it's hard to say Mama because you question your own Mama's love.
Ethel: Hm, OK... But is it on or off the beat?
Updated On: 6/4/11 at 12:09 AM
pinoyidol2006
Broadway Star Joined: 5/3/11
#15Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 12:35amI read that, too. I really enjoyed Sondheim's account of that entire process. It was, after all, his first time writing lyrics for a star.
I like your imperturbable perspicacity.
jakebloke
Broadway Star Joined: 5/29/03
#16Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 10:19am
I personally loved Bernadette's performance of Rose. I never saw Ethel Merman obviously, but the recording actually annoys me. I think whatever "acting" she's doing sounds cheesy. Just my opinion in case this angers any Merman fanatics. Don't even get me started on Lupone. :)
I'll take Bernadette any day.
#17Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 11:29am
Ethel Merman owns the role. Yes, she wasn't the most versatile actress - but she came a long way from that conversation with Sondheim to the finished product. She pushed herself to work outside her comfort zone on that role, and the results are clear when listening to the cast album. How many recordings have that kind of electricity that accurately reflect the experience of live theater?
Despite my love for all things Merman, I thought Bernadette was great in the role. A very different take, far from perfect... but much more interesting and convincing than LuPone or Daly. Not that those were shabby interpretations; I just felt they were modeled on Merman, who was already close to perfect. Bernadette took some risks, and I think many (if not all) of them worked.
I'm surprised more people are speaking up in favor of Lansbury, who in my opinion provided Broadway its second best Mama Rose.
#18Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 12:07pm
I saw Bernadette in Gypsy, the night before she actually took those 2 weeks off, so vocally, she really didn't sound that great. That being said, she commanded that stage.
One part that distincly comes to memory is the scene when she tells the Manager of the burlesque house that "My daughter can do it". At the moment, you heard the audience gasp, whic I've only heard once before in a theater. That's how effective at being relentless she was.
And the scenes with baby june on the stage within the stage, where she's mimicing the performance were down right scary.
#19Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 12:19pm
Peters had a double duty-she was playing against her kewpie doll persona. Most people can picture Merman, LuPone, Daly being abrasive battle axes.
As for her being small, didn't Laurents say that Bernadette was the most physically like Rose, as she was also petite.
I liked Peters choices-she vacillated between seductive and could quickly turn pirahna. She did shout a lot, but I liked it. Was she perfect-no.
I also like LuPone a lot, but I think she had less work to do to bring Rose to life.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#20Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 1:25pmDon't judge Bernadette's performance by the bootleg that's floating around. It's only the third preview and she clearly hadn't settled into the role yet. I saw it three times (the first right after she got back from being sick, the second a few months later, and the third just before they closed) and she was substantially more layered/textured each time. She really grew in the part.
#21Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 1:28pmI was lucky enough to see one of the shows where Bernadette Peters was in fine voice. Certainly the battleax type of Mama Rose is definitive, but I landed where Ben Brantley did: her vulnerability made for a Rose that was different but just as effective. This Rose was a woman Herbie would follow (almost) through thick and thin. This was one whom you could actually see giving birth someone who would grow up to be Dainty June or a slinky Gypsy Rose Lee. She was a sadder, more insecure Rose that I thought worked wonderfully in the production I saw.
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#22Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 2:48pmI admit that I like Patti's performance as Rose in Ravinia far better than I like what she did on Broadway. At Ravinia she seemed to have a few more layers to the character, on Broadway it just felt very one note to me. I didn't feel her hurt or her anguish in the moments where Rose should be vulnerable. Because of this I never felt that I should care what happens to this woman in the end. She was nothing but a battle-tank plowing through the lives of everyone around her trying to dominate the landscape.
zamedy
Broadway Star Joined: 6/27/07
#23Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 3:26pmI love reading abotu the different interpretations of this iconic role. And that's what they are.. interpretations. We of course all have our favorites, but the term 'best' is entirely subjective. And it's not entirely fair to base your opinion on a Rose that you've only heard on a CD (Merman, Landsbury perhaps) than ones you've seen live in a Broadway theatre. With that said, is there anyone on this board that is even old enough to have seen Merman during her two-year run, or perhaps have parents who did and talked about that experience?
zamedy
Broadway Star Joined: 6/27/07
#24Bernadette, GYPSY, and Rose's Turn
Posted: 6/4/11 at 3:28pmI love reading about the different interpretations of this iconic role. And that's what they are.. interpretations. We of course all have our favorites, but the term 'best' is entirely subjective. And it's not entirely fair to base your opinion on a Rose that you've only heard on a CD (Merman, Landsbury perhaps) than ones you've seen live in a Broadway theatre. With that said, is there anyone on this board that is even old enough to have seen Merman during her two-year run, or perhaps have parents who did and talked about that experience?
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