Is religion deserving of respect?

I sometimes find myself walking a bit of a tightrope on this. On the one hand, I really puzzle over why seemingly intelligent adults choose to spend time attempting to talk to ghosts in the sky*. If I dwell on this too much, my brain urges me to conclude that they must be suffering from some kind of mental illness.

But... so many people have these kinds of beliefs, people whom I otherwise respect very much, and intellectual humility forces me to wonder if I might be the one who's missing something. "More things in heaven and earth" and all that. I have never really doubted that I'm right and they're wrong, but I feel like I need to be open to doubting it, if that makes any sense.

*These are the words I use in my head. I don't express such scorn out loud (at least I haven't for many years). I felt the nature of this question gave me leave to let it out.

P.S. Hey kdogg, I remember you saying that back in 1992 you were outraged at the the SNL pope-ripping. You must have had faith at some stage in your life. Are you sorry or glad to have lost it?

You’ve probably heard about the current pope's recent use of homophobic slurs. Sad.

”Fight the real enemy"

YES it is.

If you believe you deserve respect for your lifestyle and beliefs, you should give respect too.

"I find it so bizarre to see strong modern women cover their hair out of “respect" for a fairytale deity, or the President of the United States walk around with ash on his forehead one day every year."

"I really puzzle over why seemingly intelligent adults choose to spend time attempting to talk to ghosts in the sky*. If I dwell on this too much, my brain urges me to conclude that they must be suffering from some kind of mental illness."

^Those comments alone are offensive and disrespectful. Do those practices affect your life? Not getting it doesn't mean you have a right to be insulting.

How do you feel when people say the same about transgender people? - they have a mental illness or live in a fairytale.

Exactly.

Updated On: 6/22/24 at 07:38 PM

You are trying to paint too broad a brush with this topic. I was born and raised a Catholic and still go to Mass with my wife every week. Yes, the sexual abuse by priests were beyond horrible. The Vatican covering it up for so many years may have even been worse. That being said, the Catholic Church and priests/nuns have done a lot of good in the world. I am one of many that have had a Catholic school education in my life and it was excellent. Many others over decades have also received that same degree of education as myself. Catholic charities have done wonderful things for people in need all across the world for a long time. Most priests in a parish go and visit and give sacraments to the sick and the elderly. Some will be involved with young people and be coaches in things like CYO basketball. You have to remember that organized religion is made up of human beings who have faults just like you and I. There is no such thing as a perfect religion. I happen to believe in a higher spirit than myself, that is a personal choice. Finally, I am fine with any religion people want to join, just don't preach to me. I also don't care if people don't believe in God, that is their choice and who the heck am I to question it.

Updated On: 6/23/24 at 04:05 PM

Kdogg, I get the cultural attachment. I think that’s what it all boils down to, really. What people are born into - nurture over nature.

Do mass-goers REALLY believe in "transubstantiation", for example? I doubt it. This seems to be the whole difference between Catholic and Protestant. That and the whole matter if Mary was a virgin or not. Kinda ridiculous, really.

Thanks to your wife for sharing her thoughts.

Imagine if the roles were reversed - only WOMEN as priests, bishops, popes. Every decision made by women. Every interpretation of scripture and theology by women. Only women allowed to deliver sacraments, only women allowed to turn wine into the blood of Christ, bread into His body.

Could men accept this? I doubt it.

dadaguza said: "Yes.That's almost as ridiculous as believing, in this modern day and age, that males can breast feed."

Is this an example of the mutual respect that you claimed to cherish? You're just a right-wing troll and I regret having bothered to give you a serious answer before.

Updated On: 6/26/24 at 05:25 PM

dadaguza said: "Yes, it is. Why is OK for you and Jay Lerner to spout derogatory things about religion and religious beliefs, calling them ridiculous,but that comment I made triggers you and now I'm a troll?"

I know I'm going to regret throwing good time after bad, but here are three responses:

(1) This thread is a very specific corner of a corner of the internet where criticism of religious belief was explicitly solicited, so I felt I could say what's on my mind about the topic (and I'll point out again that I emphasized my own intellectual limitations). You, on the other hand, choose to post on a thread that you knew wasn't really intended for you (okay, free country), about something that had nothing to do with the original topic.

(2) Religion is entirely a chosen, changeable property of an individual (as a former Catholic I know this as intimately as anyone could possibly know anything), and therefore a legitimate basis for judgment. Gender identity is not.

(3) If you really believed in the principle of "reciprocal respect" that you previously espoused, you'd behave according to that principle regardless of what I choose to do. Me, I believe in "judge and prepare to be judged." And I sure am judging you right now.

kdogg36 said: "dadaguza said: "Yes, it is. Why is OK for you and Jay Lerner to spout derogatory things about religion and religious beliefs, calling them ridiculous,but that comment I made triggers you and now I'm a troll?"

I know I'm going to regret throwing good time after bad, but here are three responses:

(1) This thread is a very specific corner of a corner of the internet where criticism of religious belief was explicitly solicited, so I felt I could say what's on my mind about the topic (and I'll point out again thatIemphasized my own intellectual limitations). You, on the other hand, choose to post on a thread that you knew wasn't really intended for you (okay, free country), about something that had nothing to do with the original topic.

Why is this thread not "intended for me"? Was I supposed to engage in the mockery of religious people instead of calling certain posters out? I don't post as much as others but I frequent these boards alot, including this off topic one. And there are multiple threads in here knocking, criticizing, or people just saying they "don't get why" certain traditional lifestyles or practices have not yet been abolished. (ie. the heterosexual weddings thread) Some subject lines are almost blatant rage bait.

Comments you guys made in this thread, like people who pray must have a mental illness, or live in a fantasy land, are exact comments people have made about the transgender community, that's why I thought of it and used it as an example when I said respect should be reciprocated. Why is it understandable for one group of people to be offended by those comments, but another should just tolerate it? You were callously making comments as if no one reading them would or should get offended, but my male breast feeding comment was so out of line and offensive and triggering that it means I'm a troll. It just feels hypocritical to me, that's why I engaged in this thread. And although I do believe in a God I'm not even super religious!


"(2) Religion is entirely a chosen, changeableproperty of an individual (as a former Catholic I know this as intimately as anyone could possibly know anything), and therefore a legitimate basis for judgment. Gender identity is not."

And there are people who believe that is the result of a mental illness. Just like you believe praying is due to a mental illness. Why is it OK to say that about one individual but not another, whether it's the result of a changeable property or not?

"(3) If you really believed in the principle of "reciprocal respect" that you previously espoused, you'd behave according to that principle regardless of what I choose to do. Me, I believe in "judge and prepare to be judged." And I sure am judging you right now."

That's cool :) You are just an anonymous person on a message board.

I believe religion deserves tolerance, not respect. You cannot demand or expect that others respect your beliefs if they have good reason to believe these beliefs are at best false or at worst harmful. However, in free societies we must tolerate others' beliefs or it doesn't work. Unfortunately, the problem we face is it's not a two-way street and many religious individuals, theology, governments etc. across the world will not tolerate beliefs of other religions or non-religious beliefs, or certain behaviours others (e.g. homosexuality). When we face such intolerance we must no longer tolerate this intolerance and be strong. We cannot tolerate intolerance.

That too.

I can NOT respect that… although I suppose it’s still less damaging than years of brainwashing inculcation.