The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the Heights- Page 3
The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the Heights
#50re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/7/08 at 6:43pm
Matt, are you in politics?...I swear, the way you tear every word a person says to the bones...we are just trying to put a positive spin on all new shows with something to offer. Theater is theater, and not movies, tv, DVD because it's a LIVE experience... I think that's why certain musicals are hard to "explain". It's an indefinable "something". My personal passion with PS, is that after 30 something years of increasingly jaded theatergoing, I just find this piece fresh, undoudtedly original in style and tone, and makes it fun again to see a great piece of theater over and over and over again and gain more and more insight, depth, and wisdom, (for an old fogie like me), and, of course, IMHO.
(BTW, I also liked INT, Xanadu, SA, Homecoming, Seafarer, Rock and Roll)
#51re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/7/08 at 6:55pm
I think we *did* meet last June at JOURNEY'S END. I love the Belasco, truly I do. 
barcelona20
Broadway Star Joined: 1/19/08
#52re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/7/08 at 8:56pm
This should help explain my thoughts.
http://www.talkinbroadway.com/allthatchat/d.php?id=1539366
reality2
Swing Joined: 3/7/08
#53re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/7/08 at 10:18pmI've been a lurker here for a long time but this is the first time that I have been motivated enough to reply. So I joined. Hope I don't regret the choice. I like IN THE HEIGHTS - perfect? probably not. But Bacelona (after too many episodes of LAW & ORDER clearly) decided that it wasn't realistic without without killings and drug dealings (really? every Washington Heights resident within a 2 day period deals with drugs and shootings -- must be brutal. are they all hookers too? better for TV)-- but what do I know? Lin-Manuel Miranda grew up 5 blocks outside of Washington Heights and didn't have this experience. Priscilla Lopez (clearly the most visible Latina Broadway performer who grew up in the Bronx felt these portraits to be realistic) feels this is a realistic portrayal of the Latino experience. Maybe some of the comments on this board are a little racist -- but perhaps the authors of these comments don't even realize that (in the wise words of AVENUE Q "Everyone's a little bit racist"). Google Pricilla Lopez's comments on IN THE HEIGHTS, google Lin-Manuel's observations of his life and experiences -- decide for yourself who understand the realities of the NY Latino experience best.
winston89
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/18/06
#54re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/7/08 at 10:19pm
I think that you can't really say that either show is "authentic" or not. I don't think In The Heights would have been authentic if they used a story line of someone getting shot in the street. I think it would have been more stereotypical rather then authentic.
I do agree that a lot of people can relate to Usnavi's sense of trying to find home and what it means to him. I can relate to that. I am not from the city I am from the suburbs of NYC and my parents aren't immigrant's. But, I can relate to the character of Usnavi very well. Seeing the show was one of if not the first time in all my 12 years of theatre going that I have seen a character the I can really relate to. Personally speaking, I am going to start college in the fall. It is my first time away from home. I am scared to SH*T about it. But, after seeing the show it gave me the sentiment that I will always have home. And, that I can always return home. a sentiment that I got at a time that I needed most.
Now, I can't speak for Passing Strange, nor would I try to because I haven't seen the show yet. But, having seen in the Heights twice I can comment on that.
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear"
Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
barcelona20
Broadway Star Joined: 1/19/08
#55re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/7/08 at 11:12pm
I like darker things, forgive me. ITH is too happy for me, and I have trouble identifying with things that are cheery all the time. That is how I felt about the book of ITH. Maybe gun violence and drugs aren't the right avenue to explore, but how about high school dropouts, or teen pregnancy. I would say that Juno did a very good job of exploring some of these issues, and I am fairly certain they are common in Wash Heights, as they are across the country.
But I digress, as for Priscilla Lopez, here is her quote, "This is going to pull in young kids, it's going to pull in a Latin audience and it's going to pull in a musical theater audience. I smell a hit!"
I agree 100% with the first two, but do not agree with the 3rd. Especially after the reviews come out on Sunday...
Furthermore, she states that she is happy that this show is putting Latinos in a positive light. And that's fine if that's what they wanted to do, but once again the book is so poor that it comes across as cheesy, not authentic.
Also, I came across this question posed to Lin Manuel, which details how this show is about his upbringing in Wash Heights, basically in a middle class family. I just don't find it particularly interesting or unique.
You've talked about some people criticizing the show for not showing enough gangs and drugs.
Yeah, one guy said to me, "I lived there and there was a lot of domestic violence." And I was like, "Maybe in your house." It was jarring for people who haven't spent time in Washington Heights to not see scenes like the one in Shaft — where the drug deal takes place in the Heights. But if I'd tried to put that in, I wouldn't have been honest with my experience there. That stuff existed, but it wasn't central to my upbringing.
Updated On: 3/7/08 at 11:12 PM
reality2
Swing Joined: 3/7/08
#56re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 9:01amIt's perfectly understandable to prefer darker material but that doesn't make this material any less "authentic." According to definition, authentic means "known to be true." Since Lin-Manuel's quote makes it clear that it is the truth of his Washington Heights experience, what qualifies you to deem it less than true? How many second-generation Hispanics that were raised in the Washington Heights area did you interview to make this determination? Or do you have statistical information to back up this claim? I'm not Hispanic but I lived on 181st Street for 6 years and I was never confronted with this dark spectre of drugs and violence. If the police ever visited my building during those six years, I never witnessed it. I took the subway every day and was never solicited for drugs or sex (though this happened to me routinely in Washington Square Park-- on the "mean streets" of the Village(!)-- during my NYU days). I didn't live in the building alone and the residents were ethnically diverse. So I worry that you are displaying either some mushy thinking or some latent racism. Otherwise I would expect that you would judge all musicals through this filter of authenticity. Do you hold other shows to your standard on authentic: CURTAINS? GREASE? PHANTOM? LEGALLY BLONDE? MAMMA MIA? MARY POPPINS?
#57re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 9:02amwhat qualifies him reality? HES A SNOB. that what qualifies him.
sabrelady
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/16/03
#58re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 10:32ami have never seen Mamma Mia! Maybe people do actually cry over it. I DID tear up @ Patience and Faith. possibly because i know a few people who had the "lucky" experience after it could have done them some good. I think Lopez is right on it's an up tempo show about home ( I kept thinking about Fiddler to tell the truth)
millie_dillmount
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#59re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 11:05am
"...she states that she is happy that this show is putting Latinos in a positive light..."
Her quote does not state that. According to what you pasted, it states that it will attract a Latin American audience. Unless there was something else you didn't paste?
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#60re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 11:16am
"..we are just trying to put a positive spin on all new shows with something to offer."
The original poster cetainly is not trying to put a positive spin on all new shows. What barcelona20 said was that Passing Strange is "real" while In The Heights is a meaningless trifle whose creator knows nothing about the reality of the life he is attempting to portray. He is trying to build up one show at rhe expense of another.
shesamarshmallow
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/23/06
#61re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 11:17am
Wow, a leading man who's NOT a pretty boy!
Yeah, because Lin-Manuel is David Beckham.
I've seen them both, and I liked them both. I probably preferred In the Heights (simply because I'm entirely over any sort of existential search), but praising one by putting down the other is childish and petty. They're both worthy additions to the season.
broadwayunderstudies.com - most underrated performers on broadway
barcelona20
Broadway Star Joined: 1/19/08
#62re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 12:42pm
I was initially trying to compare these two shows because they happened to open at the same time and are both original pieces of work, and generally try to convey the same idea of what home means. I just felt Passing Strange did a better job of conveying that message. I admire ITH for what they have brought to Broadway, I'm just disappointed that they didn't do more with it. How can anyone disagree with the fact that the book is terrible? From the original off-Broadway reviews, to most posters that I've read, everyone agrees the book is the flaw in the show.
Millie, I apologize, it was an interview on broadway.com, she further stated,
"As a Latina, I was thrilled to see such positive images onstage. We're not playing pimps and prostitutes and drug dealers; we're people who have families and dreams and care about the future. It's so beautifully presented that I knew I wanted to be a part of it."
And ITH did accomplish that goal. I just don't think it comes across as anything different than an ABC family show, which to me is boring. I mean how terrible is the line spoken by the father, "You're not good enough for my daughter". Everyone in the audience went, ooooh, I just said, you gotta be kidding me...
oh and sabregirl, to put ITH in the same sentence as Fiddler on the Roof is like putting Sweeney Todd and Legally Blonde in the same sentence.
winston89
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/18/06
#63re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 2:51pm
Barcelona,
I believe Sabregirl was using Fiddler as a comparison of two musicals that talk about the subject of home.
And, I feel that it is niave of you to say "how can anyone not agree that the book is the worst part of In The Hights." That is fullly a matter of opinion and just because it is yours doesn't automaticallly mean everyone agrees with it.
And once again, I think that your going by the sterotypes of the life in Washington Heights to make it seem more "authentic." To say that it should include more school dropouts and teen pregnancies is just as sterotypical of the area as gang violence and drugs.
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear"
Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
barcelona20
Broadway Star Joined: 1/19/08
#64re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 3:21pm
Regardless, ITH and Fiddler should not be compared on any level.
And sure, nobody ever agrees 100%, I mean there are people out there who loved High Fidelity and In My Life, but the overwhelming majority agree with me about the ITH book.
And these are not stereotypes I mention, Lin Manuel simply focuses on one aspect of Wash Heights, but to dismiss the other parts of the area does not accurately describe the entire community. You can honestly not say that these things do not exist in Wash Heights.
As I've said several times, they achieved their goal of making Wash Heights into Disneyland north. Congrats to them on achieving their goal.
#65re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/8/08 at 3:25pmWhile I largely agree with barcelona's comments, let's see what the critics have to say, if they liked ITH as much as they obviously did PS.
#66re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/10/08 at 10:48am
Matt, are you in politics?...I swear, the way you tear every word a person says to the bones
Nope. Sometimes very particular parts of a person's post will ellicit a response from me. I didn't "tear every word" anyone said. That's why I quote only the part of their post I question.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Dolly_Levi
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/8/04
#67re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/10/08 at 12:57pm"Passing Strange" just sorta appeared IMO. I heard nothing about it and then there it was. Almost no hype. Now, most of the buzz is amazing. I am very curious about it.
Laughter is much more important than applause. Applause is almost a duty. Laughter is a reward.
Carol Channing
shesamarshmallow
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/23/06
#68re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/10/08 at 1:15pm
And these are not stereotypes I mention, Lin Manuel simply focuses on one aspect of Wash Heights, but to dismiss the other parts of the area does not accurately describe the entire community. You can honestly not say that these things do not exist in Wash Heights.
Do you want the show to be 48 hours long? Because to incorporate every aspect of that whole diverse area would take at least that long, and then you'd still be complaining about the book. And at no point in the show do they outwardly deny the existence of the less acceptable aspects of the culture. It's just not what those characters deal with.
broadwayunderstudies.com - most underrated performers on broadway
winston89
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/18/06
#69re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/10/08 at 1:47pm
I agree with shesamarshmallow.
Yes those things do exisit in the Heights. But, what I am saying is that it is sterotypical to say that just because people live in that neck of the woods. Then that MUST be what they deal with. Lin Manuel Maranda picked a group of people who do live in Washington Heights but don't deal with some of the things Barcelona mentioned ( school drop outs, drugs,gangs etc.)
It is sterotypical to say that EVERYONE in that area deals with thoes things. The show did a good example of erasing that sterotype. Saying that this is not how everyone lives.
Barcalona, I am sorry that you can't realize this. And, frankly even if you did you would still compalin about the book not being accurate enough for you.
Face it, you are praising Passing Strange by putting down In The Heights.
"If you try to shag my husband while I am still alive, I will shove the art of motorcycle maintenance up your rancid little Cu**. That's a good dear"
Tom Stoppard's Rock N Roll
Borstalboy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
#70re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/10/08 at 2:08pm
Enough with these brown people musicals! I want blonde girls bouncing their hair! I want cute kids and merchandising and colors and costumes and everything white and good and good and good!
Why can't Disney come back to Broadway? It's been too long.
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
#71re: The word that explains the difference between Passing Strange & In the
Posted: 3/10/08 at 2:46pmbecarefulw hat you ask for borstal, Mulan could show up and then we'd have another brown people musical. A brown People Crossing Dressing musical but a Brown Peopel musical nonetheless.
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