Young Frankenstein-Tonys...What Happened?
Young Frankenstein-Tonys...What Happened?
#1Young Frankenstein-Tonys...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 3:48pm
I would like to get other Broadway fans opinion about why Young Frankenstein was passed over for even a nomination for Best Musical, Best Actor in a musical (Bart), Best score for a musical?
My personal opinion is that this score was much better than The Producers score and that Mel Brooks had really grown in his composition since that show. The score contains all styles of music, but songs such as Let My Creature Live and He's Loose were brilliiant dramatic songs, along with those great originals like Please Don't Touch Me, Roll in the Hay, and He Van My Boyfriend were excellent comedic skill, Deep Love, Listen to your Heart and Please Send me Someone excellent balleds, Man About Town, Transylvania Mania and Together again great showstoppers with a slice of vaudeville. I got the CD the day it came out and , being serious, have listened to it every day since, it's in my car and on my Ipod.
I just don't get it. I am so disappointed in the nominating board and votees that I am so down on the Tony's I don't feel like even watching. Do you think this was a snub? Why not any of those catagories? I'd sure like to hear from other Broadway fans what they think, maybe I won't be so darn angry. Could it be because The Producers swept the Tony's last time?
If indeed this was because of that, or because they charged a high price for front orchestra tickets or some other political reason, then a real tragedy has occured. Personally I think the score was brilliant.
Updated On: 5/17/08 at 03:48 PM
#2re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 3:55pmWarning: Most people on this board hate YF. I personally don't think that YF deserves many Tonys but I do agree that there was probably alot of anti-Mel sentiment while people were voting. And while Bart is a good character actor, he sort of flopped as the lead. He was trying to hard to ham it up, when what the show really needed was for one "straight" character that all of the supporting roles could play off on.
Oh, and I almost forgot to mention...I'm the good cop, he's the bad cop.
#2re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:02pm
There's a lot of reasons it didn't get many nominations.
The first of which is that the show didn't get reviews as good as those for The Producers. A lot of people seemed to like it, but the general consensus for the show is more negative than positive.
Also, Mel Brooks didn't do himself any favors with the $450 premium seating. I don't know if that was Brooks' decision, but with his name splashed all over the marquee he was gonna take any flack associated with it. Submitting the show to the Tonys as The New Mel Brooks Musical Young Frankenstein also worked against him -- it seemed quite le arrogant.
But much like the Oscars -- yes, it's political. Because there's no hard and fast system to judge the merit of shows, it's gonna come down to people's opinions, and people are never objective.
"You mean what was the best picture of the year or what did they pick as the best picture of the year?" - California Suite
#3re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:07pmI've read many comments about the 450.00 seating, and other things. But should all of that really matter when it comes down to which scores should be nominated because they were good enough? So far I have seen many political reasons, and obviously, like the Academy Awards, it's turned into a matter of how the show behaved and promoted rather than what quality was involved and I find that very sad. Ok so maybe it didn't deserve best musical, I don't know, but I do know this score deserved at least to be among the nominees. It's a sad state of affairs when people list reasons a show was not nominated and it has to do with politics rather than the quality of the content.I think it's one of the best Broadway scores in years, but then again I prefer the old fashioned showtune, which many on these boards seem not to like anymore.
millie_dillmount
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#4re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:13pm
I liked YF, and let me just say, I do not think the show was snubbed at all.
YF had an amazing set, not to mention two strong featured actors: Chris Fitzgerald and Andrea Martin. All three of those were nominated in their categories.
I have read a lot of people say the score is pretty forgettable. It is basically another Producers score with new jokes inserted (and I did pick up a lot of Producers references, which is because, well duh, its Brooks). The show did have a lot of fun songs, but some were just your generic show tune in the style of Mel Brooks.
Regarding Best Musical - was it really worthy of being the BEST? Sure, there is also a lot of debate as to whether Cry-Baby deserved that spot, but it seems as if people here would have liked to see A Catered Affair take that spot instead.
And Robert Bart's performance was just okay. He's a hilarious guy, but I think the other cast members outshone him.
Again, I've said this before, I don't really see the disappointment. I thought this was expected among the majority of people. Sadly, it is true that a lot of people wanted this show to fail. While YF didn't get a gajillion Tony noms, I think it deserves what it got nominated for.
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
millie_dillmount
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#5re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:18pm
By the way, I do love old fashion showtunes. I didn't mean to say "generic show tune" in a negative way.
It is politics. Mel Brooks came across as arrogant the way he was marketing the show and I that turned a lot of people off.
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#6re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:26pm
I agree with you Millie on Mel's arrogence, but my point is that it is sad that anything like that should come into play when really deciding which was best. The best score is the one I don't get. I don't feel it is anything like the Producers at all, it is a much more mature score. Producers had nothing like "let my creature live" a beautiful almost operetic song, or "he's loose", a highly driven dramatic movement, or vaudeville like Together Again. I think Young Frankenstein's score is completely different from The Producers and miles ahead of it and a much more mature score.
Oh well, just my opinion. Thanks everyone for posting your comments. I just couldn't figure this out. YF is my favorite score of the last 10 years. I am sad to see that the politics come into play, or the fact that Mel's arrogence does, that's just who Mel is and always has been, but it doesn't mean his score was not worthy and brilliant, and when voting, it's a shame that people don't vote on merit alone rather than such things as arrogence, ticket prices and such.
Updated On: 5/17/08 at 04:26 PM
#7re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:27pmFace it, YF just wasn't embraced by the Broadway community. And besides, other shows have gotten the snub worse.
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#8re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:27pmTonys, love, they're not a diner.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#9re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:29pmLOL thanks Blaxx I changed it.
WiCkEDrOcKS
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/13/04
#10re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:41pm
I don't think the score is brilliant but I do think that it's more worthy of a Tony nomination than CRY-BABY's score...and same for book.
I personally would have liked the score nominees to be YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN, A CATERED AFFAIR, IN THE HEIGHTS, PASSING STRANGE or even THE LITTLE MERMAID.
And as for book, CRY-BABY's slot should have been taken by A CATERED AFFAIR and if not ACA, then YF.
YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN is much better than CRY-BABY and the Tony nominations should have reflected that.
A lot of people have it out for Mel Brooks which surely hurt it's chances.
Updated On: 5/17/08 at 04:41 PM
TooDarnHot
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/7/08
#11re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:45pm
What happened?
the show was written. it was produced. it came to Broadway.
there are three decent reasons, to start with...
#12re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:48pm
"What happened? the show was written. it was produced. it came to Broadway. there are three decent reasons, to start with..."
Not sure if I know what you mean, TooDarnHot???
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#13re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:55pm
Could it be because The Producers swept the Tony's last time?
Almost. It just couldn't live up to its hype. Mel Brooks has always presented himself as if he was the best next thing you'll ever see and very few people appreciate this by now.
He overstayed his welcome, definitely and you have it right for the most part - it has little to do with YF, but with Brooks and production team. No one from the Tonys, in their sane mind, would even offer him a smile, let alone a nomination or an award.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
Updated On: 5/17/08 at 04:55 PM
#14re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 4:57pm
A self-admitted fan of the score from "The Producers", I was surprised and disappointed that Mel couldn't seem to find a single melody for his "Young Frankenstein" score. It's completely forgettable.
I remember reading the liner notes included with the cast recording, thinking, "God, how much did they pay this guy to gush and brag about such mediocre material?".
#15re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 5:07pmThe score didn't get nominated because it was completely forgettable. It's mediocre at best. That's why.
"I seem to have wandered into the BRAIN load-out thread... "
-best12bars
"Sorry I am a Theatre major not a English Major"
-skibumb5290
-best12bars
"Sorry I am a Theatre major not a English Major"
-skibumb5290
Yankeefan007
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/20/04
#16re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 5:08pm
Everyone expected the show to be the next THE PRODUCERS and it just wasn't.
Even with its worst cast, THE PRODUCERS was immesurably more entertaining than YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN, the bloated, overblown spectacle.
Gene Wilder said it best: Mel attempted to put his standard borscht belt humor and shtick (and if anyone doesn't know what borscht belt humor and shtick are, do a Google search) into a property that in no way had room for them.
BrianS
Broadway Star Joined: 10/8/07
#17re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 5:08pmI don't buy the snubbed comments for any show. There are too many Tony voters and it's not like they all get together and work out what they are going to vote for before they vote to get a consensus first. They see the shows, they weigh it all in, and then they vote. Of course politics can play a part in an individual's choice, but we see all the time where shows that were "snubbed" still get nominations in categories where they were worthy. I think YF is a perfect example of that. That set was amazing and it got a nomination.
If the audience could do better, they'd be up here on stage and I'd be out there watching them. - Ethel Merman
Yankeefan007
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/20/04
#18re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 5:15pm
There were 11 ties this year. A Catered Affair lost to Cry-Baby in the "Best Musical" category by 1 vote.
Keep that in mind, as well.
wiggum2
Broadway Star Joined: 9/21/03
#19re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 5:41pmWell I think Mel et al were a little too high on themselves because most of the show wasn't very good. I will admit I liked The Producers and like others have said I can't remember ONE song from YF but can think of many from The Producers. When I left the producer the 2 times I saw it, people were buzzing and still laughing. When I left YF, people left with bad impressions on their face( I wanted my money back honestly). So to answer why YF= not many tonys, People haven't liked it that well.
#20re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 7:24pm
I don't think YF was snubbed. I think it got exactly the recognition it deserved. The score, while not awful, is very ho-hum and forgettable; many of the songs don't advance the plot and are there simply as padding. Roger Bart, as great an actor as he is, was hamming it up to ridiculous proportions and even seemed to be channeling Carmen Ghia at times. Sutton Foster's tremendous talent is completley wasted, but the wonderful Chris Fitzgerald and Andrea Martin rightfully were recognized with nominations. The magnificent set also got a nomination.
And like somebody said, Mel certainly didn't help himself out by officialy submitting the show as "The New Mel Brooks Musical Young Frankenstein".
I remember reading the liner notes included with the cast recording, thinking, "God, how much did they pay this guy to gush and brag about such mediocre material?".
OMG, those notes were a trip! I especially love the part where he likens Mel Brooks to Frank Loesser, Cole Porter, Jerry Herman and Irving Berlin. I think Mel's got a long way to go before he can be included with those guys!
"You drank a charm to kill John Proctor's wife! You drank a charm to kill Goody Proctor!" - Betty Parris to Abigail Williams in Arthur Miller's The Crucible
#21re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 7:33pm
-- "OMG, those notes were a trip! I especially love the part where he likens Mel Brooks to Frank Loesser, Cole Porter, Jerry Herman and Irving Berlin. I think Mel's got a long way to go before he can be included with those guys!"
Exactly, James! Can you imagine? So glad it wasn't just me who reacted to that! =)
#22re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 10:01pmI didn't think it was too terrible. It was pretty entertaining and I think it deserved two more nominations: one for choreography and one for score. Hell, even one for costumes. I just don't see how voters thought TLM score was better than YF's.
A little swash, a bit of buckle - you'll love it more than bread.
#23re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/17/08 at 11:46pm
I don't agree with the notes in the CD comparing Mel's music to Herman and Berlin, ... but I do think Mel took the old-fashioned showtune and has done a very good and admirable job with it. How many composers who write both the music and lyrics, or either for that matter, in the last 20 years, can take credit for writing this type of score anymore and doing a decent job? NOT many if anyone. I admire Mel for this, and I hope he writes another score...Blazing Saddles would be fun hehe.
I know the trend on Broadway has been mostly other forms of music now than the old fashioned showtune, but for me, that will always be my favorite and my love...I grew up listening to it in my family home every day...and I welcome every show that uses it. I'll probably get killed for this but give me Jerry Herman over Sondheim ANY day of the week, to me there's no comparison. I can appreciate the "modern" Broadway music, but just give me a CD with the old fashioned showtune and I am very content (Do love Sondheim's "Funny thing Happened on the way to the Forum, but that's showtunes). I do like some modern b-way and am a big fan of Webber. Please everyone don't ball me out it's just my personal taste.
Updated On: 5/17/08 at 11:46 PM
#24re: Young Frankenstein-Tony's...What Happened?
Posted: 5/18/08 at 12:09amI also will toss in my two cents, in that case. Personally, while YF wasn't as exhilarating as THE PRODUCERS was for me, I thought it still had quite bit of merit and was far from disappointing. However, purely because of Mel's name and the controversial ticket price, it was already a tough sell. Now, compound that with the fact that road show producers and the like know that they'll be able to sell YF and MERMAID on tour without awards (since they're already proven blockbuster hits with movie recognition), and you have an easy case of snubbing in favor of shows that will need the Tony awards as a boost to bolster their national tour appeal. Again, just an affirmation that the Tonys are nothing but political games stripped of all artistic value. CBS would be fools if they didn't let YF and TLM (the 2 bigest box office draws on Broadway) perform on the telecast.
...And so, there I was at the stage door for "Equus". The enthused avalanche of "Harry Potter" fans was literally pushing me into the barricades. As I was thrust face-first into Daniel Radcliffe's hat, I suddenly felt the thumb of a lanky gentleman behind me pressing firmly into my back. It was then that I realized that both of his hands had Playbills, and that both arms were outstretched in front of me...
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