Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?- Page 3
Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
#50re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 8:13am
I can think of past winners who deserve it less.
Schwartz seems to be the whipping boy because Wicked is so commercially successful in the mainstream.
But surely, Broadway is commercial mainstream.
I guess if he continues working, he has as much chance as any other established writer.
#51re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:30am
I didn't know he was still married, but I do know many guys who have been in the sack with him and one that he dated for quite a while. I've always thought he was long divorced. His sexuality is no secret in NYC.
As for his scores, I'm very fond of Pippin and much of The Baker's Wife (those townspeople songs don't do it for me). The Magic Show is so immersed in a bland disco sound, I find it hard to listen to, and Wicked only has a few songs that I like, the rest being just work (bunches of words and notes, with no real inspiration or joy). Godspell has always struck me as candy dipped in sugar, except for the opening counterpoint, "On The Willows," and "Alas For You."
#52re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:36amOne needn't be accomplished in something to be able to critique it.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#53re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:37amI'm guessing Schwartz--like many other married gay men of a certain generation--fears what his wife might do should he ever leave her. Not that anyone would care, but I've known men like him and that is the thought process I've seen. Or maybe he would pull a Calvin Klein and just start showing up at events with a twenty-year-old boyfriend, pretending he's been out since day one.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#54re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:55am
He really does not need a tony. It would be nice for him and his fans I'm sure...but the fact his...he has written some scores that whether or not people on here like to admit, has reached out to MANY people...something that a lot of "favorite composers" of these boards fail to do.
And where are these rumors coming out of him being gay? Seriously? Is that actually a main discussion point here? What happened to privacy? Or respect? If he was giving off major indications that he was then I could so some argument (not a strong one) but I have not seen one shred of evidence to support that he is gay. Love how contrived these boards can be.
"Life in theater is give and take...but you need to be ready to give more then you take..."
#55re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:03amI agree that Schwartz's sexuality has nothing to do with whether or not he deserves awards, but it's hardly a rumor. It's a well-known "open secret," at least in New York, as newintown states.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#56re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:30am
Schwartz has produced some beautiful music (much of Pippin and Godspell), and some wonderful lyrics (Rags is full of superb lyric ideas and elegant wordplay), but almost never at the same time. First thinking his lyric weakness was a product of his youth back in the 70's, it was sad to hear the convolutions he came up with for Wicked 30 years later. Sadder still is to read "Defying Gravity" to learn how basic his work process is that resulted in that score. (In a nutshell, write 5 songs or song ideas for every slot in the show, poll your co-writers as to their favorite title, write 5 musical themes based on said title, poll your co-writers again, cram a lyric onto the winning tune, keep the last song standing, repeat as necessary.)
I agree with the poster that says he could win for a Hunchback or other score for which he has only contributed lyrics.
By the way, "On The Willows" is the one song in Godspell he apparently did not write. Sad because that's one of my all time favorites. Poor Stephen.
#57re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:53amCount me among the minority on BWW (but not necessarily the world at large) who think both Schwartz and Holzman deserved to win Tonys for "Wicked."
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#58re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 12:22pmWicked's score is much better than the show itself - there's a reason every theatre kid on earth knows the lyrics. It may not be to the liking of bitter show queens, but the world at large loves it. Schwartz should have won the Tony, and I think he knew that. Avenue Q, funny as it was, had an incredibly derivative score - completely undeserving of the Tony it got.
#59re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 12:28pmI would argue that Wicked's score was equally as derivative.... and that being derivative was the point of Avenue Q's score.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#60re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 12:47pm
Reggie, I can assure you that the score to Wicked is criticized by more than just "bitter show queens." It's just not very good, on the whole (but with a few nice bits here and there).
Or would you prefer that I take your method of argument and say that it's only liked by immature listeners who just don't know much about music and lyrics? (I don't believe that, by the way, but wonder if you really believe that only "bitter show queens" don't like it).
#61re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 12:53pmI totally get how Avenue Q won the year it did, but I think Caroline, or Change would still come in over Wicked. I really like the score to Wicked. It's catchy and tuneful. So was Avenue Q, but the lyrics and concept put it on top. Personally, I think the Avenue Q score gets tedious on repeated listens once the element of surprise is removed (a smiliar fate I believe Book of Mormon will suffer) and Wicked has a couple of clunkers, but also some melodic gems that will become classics. Artistically, I think Caroline, or Change was a triumph, but I knew it couldn't win in a season with a runaway surprise hit and a huge blockbuster in the race.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
CurtainPullDowner
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/4/04
#62re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 1:59pmAccording to the info in this thread, maybe he's already had a Tony.
carolinaguy
Broadway Star Joined: 10/13/06
#64re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 2:13pmI distinctly remember an interview in which Schwartz said with some venom that he mainly thanked God for Wicked because it meant he would never have to write for Broadway again. But if he's got something in development with collaborators, perhaps his attitude has softened. But I still don't think he'll ever win a competetive Tony. This is coming from someone who would have voted for Wicked for Best Book and Best Musical, but Avenue Q for Best Score. Wicked has some wonderful numbers for the leading ladies, but the songs for the other characters and the company numbers are serviceable at best. To me, that means the property wasn't entirely musicalized--only individual moments were.
Just remembering you've had an "and"
When you're back to "or"
Makes the "or" mean more than it did before
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#65re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 4:21pm
Re posts on previous page:
No problem, Carlos. Thanks for the explanation.
Johnny, what is "a shrill"? (I'm honestly asking, since my remarks seem to me the opposite of the usual meaning of the word.)
What version of "Magic Show" was recorded as disco? Certainly, it's a score that leans toward pop (in fairness there isn't much story to musicalize), but it came a year or two before the heyday of disco. Maybe the poster just meant the score sounds like the 70s and used "disco" as an umbrella term for the period.
***
When I was a kid, people were knocking Schwartz because he wasn't Sondheim, but often seemed derivative of Sondheim ("West End Avenue" after "Another Hundred People," for example). That Schwartz' shows were much more popular only added salt to the wound.
Surely time has proven there is room for both writers. In my CD collection, there's also room for both Wicked and Avenue Q.
Hope this post isn't too shrill. :)
Updated On: 8/16/11 at 04:21 PM
sweeneytodd2
Featured Actor Joined: 10/28/04
#66re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 4:36pmCarolinaguy, can you explain how Wicked isn't "entirely musicalized?" It seems as much like a musical as a musical can be, even if the quality of the music is inconsistent.
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#67re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 4:42pmI don't know anything about Schwartz' sexuality, but unless he's publicly opposing gay rights, I don't see why it should concern us. Coming out is always complicated by having been married and having had children. Even more so for a public figure, I imagine.
#68re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 5:00pmTo suggest either withholding or giving someone a Tony because they are out or closeted is stupid. It has nothing to do with anything.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Gaveston2
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/11
#69re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 5:10pm
Maybe there was a year three or four decades ago when an "out" actor winning would have had some political meaning.
But at this point--cue Neil Patrick Harris' 2011 opening number, which I've now watched 50 times--I think the viewing audience just assumes all the male winners are gay.
So give Stephen Schwartz a Tony! It'll be the same as outing him!
#70re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:23pm
By the way, "On The Willows" is the one song in Godspell he apparently did not write. Sad because that's one of my all time favorites. Poor Stephen.
Wrong song. He did write "On the Willows." The one song in the score not by him is "By My Side" (lyrics by Jay Hamburger, music by original cast member Peggy Gordon). As Schwartz put it, he could have written another song for that slot, but liked it too much to let it go. (Granted, "Beautiful City" in its new version replaced that song in Godspell Junior, so it's not like he lacks alternatives; I think at this point letting it stay is a formality on his part, that and it's become such a recognizable and well-loved part of the score.)
"There is no problem so big that it cannot be run away from."
~ Charles M. Schulz
Updated On: 8/16/11 at 10:23 PM
#71re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 10:46pm
"Or would you prefer that I take your method of argument and say that it's only liked by immature listeners who just don't know much about music and lyrics? (I don't believe that, by the way, but wonder if you really believe that only "bitter show queens" don't like it)."
I'd say that there are plenty of brilliant performers and teachers who adore the music to Wicked. I don't think that only bitter show queens dislike it, but I do think a grand majority of people who hate it only do so because it's incredibly popular.
hyperbole_and_a_half
Leading Actor Joined: 3/21/11
#72re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:03pmMeh, I liked the first four measures of Wicked better when they were the first four measures of Pippin
sweeneytodd2
Featured Actor Joined: 10/28/04
#73re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:34pmDon't you think that's a bit of a hyperbole?
chewy5000
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/1/09
#74re: Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:46pmGosh this thread has taken a pretty sordid turn
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