Riedel on Nerds- Page 2
Riedel on Nerds
#25Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 12:24pm
one can make an investment, per the terms of the offer, with or without strings, and the condition is specified in the form you sign at the time. In the former case, the funds are effectively in trust, but in the zeitgeist of producing and investing, people invest unconditionally. In fact, in some situations funds would not be accepted with the condition because they are needed. As bizarre as it may seem in any other context, and as rehearsed in earlier posts, it is not at all unusual for shows to move forward on fumes. I seem to recall that the capitalization for Hairspray came together either at 11am on the day of opening, or 11 minutes before curtain. The latter sounds sexier but the former is probably closer to the truth.
SomethingPeculiar
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/15/14
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#28Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:01pm
But weren't the out of town productions some time ago? Unless this lead producer was attached way back then, those regional stagings wouldn't have been used to generate investment dollars for this planned Broadway production. I thought the argument was they should have done another try-out or 'enhanced' developmental production to better capitalize a Broadway staging.
“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
#29Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:13pm
Exactly. The tryouts weren't "tryouts" they were just regional productions. I'm sure there are plenty of bigger regional theaters that would have hosted an out of town try out. Generate some buzz and excitement, get some music out there, some pictures, some reviews, and then move to Broadway.
That is interesting about Hairspray. I guess I can't really wrap my head around producing and all that. I just don't understand where the money comes from and how people get paid if the full investment isn't there. And without all that, how do they know how much it's gonna cost?
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#30Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:17pm
You can have as many out of town productions, or "tryouts", as you want. It won't make a show into a show people want to see. Ask Bright Star.
#31Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:19pm
Yeah, they were a while ago:
https://www.playbill.com/article/philadelphia-theatre-co-welcomes-nerds-musical-in-2006-07-plus-murderers-com-132789
https://www.broadwayworld.com/philadelphia/article/NERDS-Musical-Returns-to-Philadelphia-Theatre-Company-1129-1229-20131108
https://www.wral.com/entertainment/video/12008039/
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#32Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:29pm
Producing is actually pretty carefully regulation by the Security Commissions to avoid the cliche Bialystok and Bloom situation. A producer has to legally declare a production budget - usually with a minimum capitalization (meaning the production must raise that dollar amount in order to legally open) -- a production 'budget' - which usually sits somewhere in the middle and a 'maximum' capitalization amount -- meaning there is a ceiling (over the budget) that can be raised for reserve.
So basically how it works - is that producers hire a General Manager to create a budget that includes mounting costs (scenery, costumes, pre-production advertising) and also a weekly running costs -- (cast/crew salaries, weekly advertising, theatre rent etc).
So a potential investor is shown these documents and can make their own determination as to whether they think its a good project to put their money into. The documents for the Broadway production I saw actually had a diagram that showed how long it would take the show to recoup in various box office intake scenarios.
But for the most part, you shouldn't be investing in a show unless you have what I call "Monopoly Money" -- that you can totally expect to lose. Most people don't invest in Broadway shows to make money -- they invest because they want to go to the opening night party, have access to house seats, bragging rights and maybe a shot at standing on the stage at the Tony Awards (with the 500 other producers) if their show wins a top Best Musical honor.
In terms of producing the show -- usually the lead producers create a company LLC to actually 'produce' the production. The contracts are usually signed with this LLC - not the producers as liable individuals. Again, I don't exactly know how this works when the show closes prematurely, but I assume if the LLC closes at a complete loss (with outstanding debts like in the situation with NERDS) it would file bankruptcy and the unpaid vendors would be paid pennies on the dollar as when any company files for bankruptcy. I don't know if these vendors ever have insurance to cover situations in which they don't get paid -- but again, at this level, this hypothetically would play out the same as it would if a store closed and they couldn't pay for their inventory, unpaid bills etc.
“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 01:29 PM
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#33Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:32pm
Wait, there's a big difference between regional/festival/small productions that use the intellectual property of the piece versus actual tryouts with the production team that would be Broadway-bound.
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KCW
Featured Actor Joined: 10/31/15
#34Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:33pm
I'm not questioning your knowledge but genuinely interested, where did you learn all this? Was it a book, website or conversation, and if it was a book or website could you direct me to it?
I appoligise for any spelling mistakes. I may be on my mobile. Clumsy fingers and small little touchscreen keys don't mixx. I try to spellcheck, but I may miss something.
#35Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:33pm
Yes, the "Broadway" production never was done anywhere else, though the show had been produced regionally before. So there was no real "tryout" of this incarnation of the show.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#36Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:34pm
Exactly. BRIGHT STAR did two out of town tryouts with its lead producers attached and it used its tryouts to gain reviews and momentum to attract investors for the Broadway production. But they were apparently still raising money in previews to reach their full capitalization. That is the norm.
KCW -- I personally only know this because I had a number of conversations with a Broadway producing team about putting money into a show a few years back. Being a novice, they very graciously talked me through every step of how Broadway fundraising and producing works. And I came close to investing -- but I was changing careers at the time - and decided I didn't have the 'monopoly money' to lose. The show I almost invested in, btw, did just narrowly recoup -- but it would have been a real gamble. But I absolutely adored the material - and that is why I would have put my money in. Not to ever see it again.
“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 01:34 PM
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#37Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:36pm
I'll repeat what I already said upthread. Even if Nerds had had two official out of town Broadway tryouts, that would not matter if nobody wanted to see it. I don't see the correlation between the two.
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 01:36 PM
Cupid Boy2
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/5/13
#38Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:37pm
With the names Steve Martin and Edie Brickell attached, I don't think treating Nerds as if it were on the same playing field as Bright Star is fair.
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 01:37 PM#39Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:41pm
Well if NERDS had opened in a pre-Broadway production with THIS cast and planned physical production for Broadway and got poor reviews out of town and nobody wanted to see it -- than a smart producer would have decided not to bring it in.
I think what Kad was arguing was that this was all thrown together so quickly, there wasn't proper time to advertise, build buzz or even sell tickets - so who knows if anybody really wanted to see this production or not. Maybe it would have opened and have been a surprise hit. But the folly is that the producer raced to the finish line (again my guess is because a theatre was available) and it was totally premature financially and it just blew up in his face.
“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 01:41 PM
Cupid Boy2
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/5/13
#40Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:47pm
And who's to say that those involved would've even had the time for an out-of-town tryout and a transfer if the reception had warranted it? It's not always just about the timing of theatre availability. A lot of schedules have to align as well.
#41Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 1:54pm
this seems like a good time to once again point out that there are no rules. Shows can open cold and succeed, have amply tryouts and fail, benefit from changes made on the road or in previews, or become worse after changes are implemented. As Neon said, channeling someone much wiser than any of us, if people don't wanna see something, you can't pay them enough to sit through it. And as is also true, sometimes producers and investors believe in and love something that no one else does.
#42Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 2:01pm
I agree Hogans but in the situation with NERDS we don't know if audiences wanted to sit through it or not. Perhaps the producers looked at the early box office receipts and they were dire and that's why they pulled the plug - but they also had done no advertising and the show was only briefly on sale - so its very hard to say if that is what happened. That statement only holds water if it had been a huge box office failure in its regional productions. Do we know that is true?
Maybe Neon is speaking specifically about BRIGHT STAR which didn't exactly light up reviews or box office out of town, so the question of bringing it in had inherent risk.
“I knew who I was this morning, but I've changed a few times since then.”
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 02:01 PM
#43Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 2:24pm
yes Alice we don't know. my point was simply that you can do everything "right" and still die a miserable death.
#44Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 2:27pm
HogansHero said: "yes Alice we don't know. my point was simply that you can do everything "right" and still die a miserable death."
Indeed.
Which does make you wonder why the lead producers here did little right at all.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Wilmingtom
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/11
#45Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 3:45pm
I'm on team bk here. And if you can't raise your capitalization over a period of, say, a year, to think you'll raise it during your preview period is delusional and irresponsible.
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 03:45 PM#46Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 3:58pm
Wilmingtom said: "I'm on team bk here. And if you can't raise your capitalization over a period of, say, a year, to think you'll raise it during your preview period is delutional [sic] and irresponsible. "
Naive position to take, since it happens all the time. Perhaps it is objectively irresponsible but it is hardly delusional. Without it Broadway would be paved with dark theatres.
vampire musical
Stand-by Joined: 6/25/14
#47Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 4:14pm
There are at least two shows currently in previews or rehearsals that are beating the bushes for money. Producers raise capital during previews ALL the time. Only the big star vehicles or big buzz shows (a la Hamilton) have all the money sewn up before starting rehearsals. And sometimes co-producers over promise on what they can deliver, come up short last minute, and leave a lead producer scrambling. It may not be morally right to start rehearsals without all the capital in place, but it's legal.
Updated On: 3/25/16 at 04:14 PM
#48Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 4:20pm
This was sort of touched upon but producers are often squeezed into dates by the theater owners. They don't just get to waltz up and choose when they open. A lot of times it's a this date or no date pressure and when you spend time developing a piece for so long and want to see it come to Broadway, it's a heartbreaking choice to have to make... Wait and hope the owners will give you a better opening date with more time to put your tickets on sale or just go for it because you don't know when your next chance will be. It just seems like lesser experienced or less well known producers have an uphill battle from the start. Just something to think about.
Also, actors, musicians, directors, publicists, general managers, production rental houses... you chose to work on Broadway. Know the state of the industry! Know the inherent risk in your job and know the people who employ you and hire you for your work. To take all responsibility off of all of the other people involved in making a Broadway show is ridiculous. Yes the producer brings them together and employs them but the good producers do the best to educate and protect their teams. It just isn't always possible to get a show to opening and everyone working in Broadway in any capacity should be aware of that. We're all adults and ultimately we have to be responsible for ourselves and the decisions we make. Know the state of the industry and that many if not most shows are not fully capitalized until during previews. Don't turn a blind eye to that and then complain when you're stuck with unpaid bills.
Everyone on Broadway world smelled something from the beginning and I think it's crazy that all involved could say they didn't.
Wilmingtom
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/18/11
#49Riedel on Nerds
Posted: 3/25/16 at 4:23pm
I do understand that going into rehearsal or previews without your capitalization is not unusal. I still think it's bad producing.
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