RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals- Page 2
RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
avab802
Broadway Star Joined: 5/17/06
#25re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/11/09 at 10:59pmpushdabutton, I think you should go for Ragtime. I saw the original 11 years ago as well, but this production has a completely different feeling to it. I doubt you'll be disappointed.
pushdabutton
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/2/05
#26re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/11/09 at 11:01pm
Good to hear avab802. I appreciate your opinion. I am really leaning toward buying tickets for Ragtime. I already have tickets for Hair and have time for one more show.
Updated On: 11/12/09 at 11:01 PM
#27re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/11/09 at 11:27pmI haven't seen either of the other shows you're considering, but I cannot imagine that they are better than Ragtime. I would definitely recommend it over just about anything presently on Broadway.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#28re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 12:49am
Dottie, I'm missing you by a week!
Why can't Phantom 2 and Spiderman battle it out for the Hilton instead? Which ever one actually manages to open first can win.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
Fosse76
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/21/05
#29re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 12:01pm
"That is not true. If that was true Ragtime would have never moved into the Neil Simon and Love Never Dies can't kick Ragtime out of the theater. And if the set is so high tech then why doesn't it go into a big theater? The Neil Simon is not a very big theater."
Wrong. The producers of Ragtime are well aware that at some point in the near future they will have to close or re-locate. However, they have no real advance to speak of, so it may just close. My understanding is the show has to run through April to make back its money.
As far as a new standard, I disagree. That is, unless you want to pay top prices for under-produced regional productions.
WiCkEDrOcKS
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/13/04
#30re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 1:27pmPushdabutton, you'd be crazy not to go for RAGTIME over the vastly overrated SUPERIOR DONUTS and the absolutely horrendous MEMPHIS. RAGTIME is an incredible production, the other two don't even begin to compare to it in any way.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#31re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 7:14pm
As a HUGE fan of the original production I'd love to hear some direct comparisons--between sets, choreography, etc.
I felt that at the time Ragtime was unfairly criticized for being so gosh darn BIG. It's no secret that Drabinsky (and a Ragtime musical, love or hate the man, was nearly completely his idea and doing) wanted to, after spearheading the Prince Show Boat, do a modern huge epic musical, and IMHO he succeeded.
I also kinda resent the current attitude among many critics and theatre producers that if you do a more stripped back version of a big show it somehow instantly gains in credibility and artistic merit (witness Signature Theatre's recent endless comments about how their Show Boat won't have anything close to an actual boat on stage--they seem to almost be BRAGGING about it.
The endless tiny productions of what were once the BIG Prince/Sondheim musicals of the 70s are another example). I'm not at all against more intimate takes on these shows, and often I do think it reveals an aspect of the show--if the material is strong enough and with Ragtime it is--that the large productions miss. But I also can't help thinking something can be lost from the large productions--it's a trade off IMHO. Certainly I resent the implication some snobbier theatre goers have that the more lavish a production the more artistically bankrupt the vision--somehow the fact that spectacle itself can add to the visceral impact of theatre is seen as a cheat.
Anyway--that was a rant on my part and not specifically about this Ragtime at all. But I would love to hear some specific comparisons.
#32re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 7:56pm
I also kinda resent the current attitude among many critics and theatre producers that if you do a more stripped back version of a big show it somehow instantly gains in credibility and artistic merit
It doesn't gain credibility and merit, it just takes away the distractions so you can focus on the content instead. Stripping down Tarzan won't instantly give it artistic merit. The material has to be good enough to stand alone without the spectacle.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#33re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 8:35pm
I'm partially playing Devil's Advocate here--I do get what you mean, but...
Why is it always deemed a distraction? When I saw the original Ragtime 3 times in Vancouver, I NEVER considered the gorgeous staging a distraction--to me it was exactly a big part of what made the show so full of impact for me--it heightened everything else.
#34re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 10:18pm
Eric, the first major difference is the size of the venue. I saw the original production at The Ford's Center and sat in either the 2nd or 3rd row in the orchestra, which was great as I was able to see the expressions of the actors. The 2nd time I saw the show, I sat in the mezzanine and actually felt very removed from the proceedings on stage as that particular theatre is rather large. The Neil Simon Theatre is a perfect venue as I felt very close to the action on stage.
That being said, I loved the grandness of set and staging and the number of people in the cast in the original production. The present cast doesn't number as many, but they fill out the set nicely.
Just a few more thoughts to add to the original message I sent you last night.
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#35re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/12/09 at 11:38pm
I appreciate it! I believe the revival is only about 10 people less than the original (I think?) so might not really count as much of a smaller production though the sets seem less elaborate (though still quite big)
The Ford was built for Ragtime wasn't it? When I saw it in Van all those times it was at Livent's new Ford Theatre there too but it's not a particularly big theatre--and I was in the first 15 rows every time.
#36re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 6:41amEric, I'll have to compare my original Playbill with the present one. The actors now in the roles of Emma Goldman, Booker T. Washington, Evelyn Nesbitt and Houdini are part of the ensemble as well, as opposed to being separate tracks.
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
BroadwayAbridged
Stand-by Joined: 2/2/07
#37re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 2:29pm
Sorry to go back to the sidetracked topic, but why wouldn't ALW want Phantom 2 right next to Phantom 1, like at the Shubert?
And back on topic--I just saw this, and while I missed a few things about the original production, I overall found to enjoy this more. Just overall fantastic.
- Gil
http://www.broadwayabridged.com
#38re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 2:52pm
"but why wouldn't ALW want Phantom 2 right next to Phantom 1, like at the Shubert? "
Or even the Broadhurst which will be Vacant. Or at least I think it will be vacant I searched Playbill and IBDB and nothing is coming up in the Broadhurst after.
#39re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 3:42pm
Why is it always deemed a distraction? When I saw the original Ragtime 3 times in Vancouver, I NEVER considered the gorgeous staging a distraction
Distraction doesn't have to have such a negative connotation, it just means something that splits the attention. If a show is stripped down, all the focus is on the music and lyrics.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
bwaylvsong
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/28/05
#40re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 4:28pm
^But it can also backfire and put the focus on the lack or cheapness of the set (like the recent Wonderful Town revival).
The most common comment I heard after the show was "where was the set?!"
#41re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 4:30pm^ After Ragtime or Wonderful Town?
#42re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 4:33pm
"The actors now in the roles of Emma Goldman, Booker T. Washington, Evelyn Nesbitt and Houdini are part of the ensemble as well, as opposed to being separate tracks."
I believe that they're always those respective characters, however they are onstage a great deal more with the ensemble.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
bwaylvsong
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/28/05
#43re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 5:05pmAfter Wonderful Town- what I've seen of Ragtime looks BEAUTIFUL!
#44re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 7:15pm
^But it can also backfire and put the focus on the lack or cheapness of the set (like the recent Wonderful Town revival).
The most common comment I heard after the show was "where was the set?!".
That goes back to my original point- the material has to be able to stand alone without the spectacle. Stripped down doesn't mean it has to be a bare stage, it just means they don't need kicklines, fireworks, and a helicopter landing onstage.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#45re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/13/09 at 11:33pmI never saw the original production of Ragtime, so I can only imagine how lavish it had to be for people to be calling this revival "stripped down". It's still pretty damn big- 40 people who each have four or five costume changes each, a three-tier metal art nouveau set, etc. etc. A John Doyle production this ain't.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
RagtimeRay
Stand-by Joined: 5/16/03
#46re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/14/09 at 5:38am
The original production of RAGTIME was at the Ford Center for the Performing Art (now the Hilton Theatre). It was (is) a cavernous space, that doesn't lend itself to a feeling of intimacy.
The original set design was inspired by Penn Station. No, not the Penn Station now under Madison Square Garden, but the original Penn Station built at the turn of the last Century. (I think that Evelyn Nesbit's lover, the architect, had a hand in the design of the original Penn Station.)
So there were steel columns that moved in and out of the wings, depending on the scene, and there were metal catwalks that raised and lowered. The stage was framed by giant staircases.
It wasn't that any particular scene had huge (by Broadway standards) scenic elements, but the overall effect was that it was large and overwhelming - not unlike the warehouse that surrounded the original SWEENEY TODD
A large stereopticon (sp?) hung above the set at the opening, and the young boy picked up a small steropticon setting on the edge of the stage. Then upstage the audience saw the stereo images of the family's house come together, behind which was revealed the New Rochelle family in front of an image of their home. In a later scene, the house was repeated (3-dimensionally) in a much small version placed upstage to provide a forced perspective.
Scenery was more literal in the original production - an actual Model-T Ford, a home with two levels, a large front door, and a piano in the parlor. But there were other scenes that were only done with a dropped-in sign, etc. The Morgan Library backdrop was done very realistically.
I saw the Kennedy Center production of RAGTIME and it was stunning - and I saw understudies for the roles of Mother and Tateh. If anything, the more minimal settings served to heighten the focus on the story, the characters, and rich music.
Best wishes to the cast of RAGTIME for what I hope will be a superb opening night.
Ray is the author of the Brad Frame mystery series, and two suspense novels. He is also the author of a one man play based on Ben Franklin. http://www.rayflynt.com
Updated On: 11/14/09 at 05:38 AM
Stand-by Joined: 12/31/69
#47re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/14/09 at 7:06amGreat description of the set. Eugene Lee (who also designed the Sweeney Todd you mention) of course also used blown up photograps for some imagery as backdrops,and a lavish show curtain. In the Souvenir Program he said he wanted to make the sets fairly stylized, especially at first and then lead into a very literal and real set for the library which he based on actual rooms in it.
AnythingGoes2
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/30/08
#48re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/14/09 at 8:28am
I cannot wait to see Ragtime next year when I am in NY - the show looks great.
LND is not confirmed to go to NYC but if it does - it will go to The Neil Simon. The theatre owners want it (it will sell if London works) and ALW wants it and the deal has been struck - and thats the way it works a lot of the time. Theatre owners have tentive shows to come in all the time for if they work out and then shows to back up that for if that doesn't work out. Its just the way the industy works to keep in fresh and alive and also so finacially. Every theatre in London and NYC probably has shows planned in to replace the current show that is playing there (xcept for massive shows with advances like Wicked, Mamma Mia, Phantom, Jersey Boys etc) not theatre owner wants to be stuck with an empty theatre because shows can close in a matter of weeks if they don't have great advances/hype.
#49re: RAGTIME sets a new standard for musical revivals
Posted: 11/14/09 at 8:31am
Eugene Lee, who lives in my neighborhood, based the original production's house on this house in our neighborhood. Every time I go by it I can't help humming a few la la lalalas.
Art has a double face, of expression and illusion.
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