My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN- Page 6
My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
#125re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 12:25pm
joniray, it's really hard for me to respond to you, because you've used the "would Larson be okay with this?" clause, and to be perfectly honest with you, reading what you say reminds me of how I had expected myself to approach the movie. It sort of feels like stepping back in time, you know? I feel like I'm looking at my old own opinions, and looking at how I expected myself to react when this time finally came. I know that what I say now can sort of make me look like a sheep, or a hypocrite... or just a cock-eyed optimist. It's really hard to give a response that I feel like will be of any validity... maybe it's because deep down, as much as I trust the creative vision embraced by the cast, etc, I am still going to be a bit afraid until I've seen the movie and it's all said and done.
I think as far as the part about Jonathan... last year, I wouldn't hear anything of the movie because I felt that it was unfair for this to go on without him present -- I felt like... whose right is it to edit and change his work when he can't be there to see it happen? But then I think I realized that it's in the right hands, and while no one knows what he absolutely would've wanted, there isn't anything anybody can do about the fact that he isn't here, other than not make this movie -- which at this point, I don't believe is even a fair solution. I don't know, it's hard to verbalize. But I think I just realized that I needed to get over that notion. In a sense similar to my wonderment of who had the right to tweak his piece (aside from the fact that it IS imperfect), who was I to pass judgement? I have too much faith in the cast not to, I think. And, I trust their opinions.
But, I guess with my new-found optimism, as opposed to where I stood one year ago, I'm going to try, based on certain promises that I've been made. Granted, this is sort of my spitting back what I've been told, and what I want very, very badly to believe (I think I'll be able to, anyway), rather than my own opinion after having scene the movie -- so, take your grains of salt, I suppose.
but what about the millions whose first and perhaps only exposure to Rent will be without it?
The only thing I can offer is that it works. If it's someone's first exposure to Rent, and if we're to assume that this works, then they won't know that something is missing, and accept that this is the way it is. In this sense, it's okay that the movie isn't an *exact* translation of the show. It's an adaptation. They'll get the same things from it -- by seeing close-ups of facial expressions, etc. It doesn't need to be TOLD, but it can be SEEN. I think those things can be just as painful or emotional. I find it hard to assume that just because a line is gone, the emotion has been drained. I mean, just look at the intensity of facial expressions anywhere in the trailer. The end of Goodbye Love was in that movie up until the very end of the editing process; it wasn't cut out on a whim, it wasn't just taken away without consideration. On the same note, though, (while this may fuel the fire of anger) that also meant no re-shoots. I'm not sure how else to put it, unfortunately. I have nothing else to offer but that I trust the decisions, the opinions of the cast and that I hope I'm not disappointed.
However, I ramble.
We'll see. 
TimeSuckage
Stand-by Joined: 10/18/05
#126re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 12:34pmSmart Penguin, it was just a "throwing stones in glass houses" kind of thing, imo. I have no issue with paradox posting anything and everything about bway no matter how many or how few shows he has seen or where he lives. I do have an issue with my credibility being attacked just because I haven't posted a million times on these boards.
joniray
Broadway Star Joined: 3/27/04
#127re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 12:40pm
Emcee, I hope your right. When I first heard of Columbus being chosen as director, I have to admit that I thought it was a strange choice. But then with the casting of most of the original principles, the trailers and the soundtrack, I was very much looking forward to seeing this movie. It looked (and sounded) like overall they really got it right. I was convinced that the creative team and cast were going to do right by the work.
This however, seems like a last minute change that the cast had nothing to do with. Hopefully it will all be for the best, but we are not talking about a line here. We are talking about a full scene leading dramatically up to the climax of the piece. I hope those facial expressions are strong enough to fill in for all of that.
So, yes, we'll see.
#128re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 12:44pm
Oh, absolutely. I was like "Columbus? Rent?" A lot of people were, though. Turns out he's a big fan of the show, which makes me feel better -- and the cast loves him, and thinks he did right by the piece.
I think because it's an "adaptation," the changes may be okay. The thing that got me to let go of worrying was learning to take Rent the show and Rent the movie as two separate entities.
The cast had nothing to do with the cutting about Goodbye Love, no. But they still liked what they saw.
#129re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 12:52pm
I have to say this cutting of "Goodbye Love" is the first thing I have heard about the movie that makes me upset since that initial shock at Columbus directing it.
Ah well, the movie is a different animal and I am still looking forward to it.
Time, I understood what you were saying, I still think that is the type of argument that breeds the problem you are trying to avoid. I do not think you are a shill for the movie, yet Paradox's points remain valid. It is simply the way message boards work to respect and value know posters over the unknown.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
TimeSuckage
Stand-by Joined: 10/18/05
#130re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 1:43pm
SmartPenguin, it has been my experience that it is only the way THESE message boards work that known posters are valued and trusted more than unknown posters.
I think I mentioned before but will restate that I'm not a fan of cutting Goodbye Love 2. While I can see that it would be melodramatic to show the sung argument dialogue, I think it could have been very effective to transfer those lyrics to spoken dialogue as was done in other places. The only reason I can see the filmmakers cutting it is that it might make Roger too much of an asshole at that point. I don't agree, I think this piece of Roger/Mark dialogue is important to their character arcs (Mark learning to engage rather than stand outside, Roger learning it's better to commit to Mimi no matter how doomed they are), but I think I can understand why it was cut.
I'm finding the argument about "What would Jonathan Larson have wanted?" incredibly arrogant and small-minded. Sure, it would be really nice if he were still around to take part in the translation of his stage work to screen. But he's not, and the work must stand alone, and it must be open to interpretation the way that other theatrical works are. I mean, I'd be very surprised if Rebecca Miller got her panties in a twist over a controversial staging of "Death of a Salesman" or "The Crucible" and started screaming "That's not what my father wanted or intended!" Actually, that would be pretty funny. The Larson family has been involved in the film production from minute one, and I think fans who care about that sort of thing should take comfort that they are protecting their son/brother's artistic legacy. I'd even suggest that inclusion of the original cast members who worked alongside Jonathan Larson and were direct recipients of his opinions and ideas has provided his vision with even more protection.
#131re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 1:45pm
I guess I will live now that that scene was cut. At least we have it on the soundtrack and possibly on the dvd. I am still upset that I was not considered to be in the movie, but hey . . . what can you do? 
"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2
#132re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 1:50pmI've seen many a message board with the exact same sentiments Time. It is not the case that the mistrust of newbies is in any way limited to this board. The boards represent a community, to be a full member of the community takes time and knowledge.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#133re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:30pm
David Poland's review of the film is up. As far as I know, this is the first review from a major film critic:
http://www.thehotbutton.com/today/hot.button/index.html
joniray
Broadway Star Joined: 3/27/04
#134re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:31pm
TimeS, once again, we are not talking about a reinterpretation of the material. We are not talking about a change in the way the scene is done. We are not talking about changing a line of dialogue. We are talking about completely deleting an entire scene which is one of the most crucial points needed to take you to the completion of the story and character arcs. If someone had completely deleted the scene with Biff and Willie were Biff lets loose his emotions on Willie (before Willie's final scene), you better believe that not only Rebecca Miller, but likely anyone who has ever cared for the play would likely have something to say about it. I think that is a comparable situation.
But my main beef is, if Emcee is to be believed, this wasn't cut because of an artistic decision that the script or story would be better off without the scene. It wasn't even cut due to pacing. It was cut because the way Columbus filmed it didn't work on screen. I mean, who all thought it would be a good idea to film a scene with big emotions such as that one with lots of close-ups? And instead of spending the money to re-film it and do it right, the 'powers that be' say, "You know, we don't really need that scene. It's okay without it. Really." Even if it does work out being "okay" without the scene, the bottom line is we are loosing a major important scene in the story due to the director's goof and a studio's unwillingness to re-shoot and I'm pissed about that.
#135re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:38pm
Okay, wait. Slow down. That's not what I'm saying, that's your interpretation of the information I posted, so please don't word this to make it look like I'm accusing Columbus of a mistake.
The bare-bones of the issue is that the material was too melodramatic for film to handle. I'm not saying that if it were filmed another way it would've worked. Maybe if it were shot differently, it would've worked well enough to stay, but maybe it wouldn't. I think that it's more likely that the material just wouldn't fly. The fact that it was in there until the very end tells me that it was on the cusp of working, but when they tried it with the scene cut, it just worked "better." I realize that better is objective. The decision was based on the fact that the material, as it was, was too melodramatic on screen.
By all means, have your opinions and your interpretations, but please don't twist my words to pull me into them. I don't know that it was because Columbus' f*cked up, nor is that what I think. I think it's an issue of adaptability. In the material. I understand why it wouldn't work, and am in no way saying that I think if it had been done in some different way that it would've stayed in the movie. Do I have any way of knowing that? Of course not.
I knew I wouldn't be able not to read the reviews. Here goes.
#136re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:39pmWow, he couldn't even be bothered to get the song titles right.
forgetregret
Stand-by Joined: 9/6/05
#137re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:41pm
"Take Me As I Am"?
I can't really take a review seriously when the critic doesn't even take the time to look up song titles.
Why was he allowed to post the review this early, anyway? Aren't movie reviews (like Broadway reviews) from actual critics not supposed to come out until the movie opens?
#138re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:43pm
Boring?
I suppose this means he found the Broadway show boring, as well? *eyeroll*
"Oh, good. After all, I can rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time, and I can do it with my eyes closed while whistling 'The Entertainer.' That's rhythm for you."
~ Snaps, proving that White Boys CAN have rhythm
#139re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:44pm
No, it's not uncommon for movie reviews to appear over a month (sometimes two months) before a film is released natinally. I have known what critics thought of Jarhead and Elizabethtown so long that it seems odd to me that both movies are "new releases."
Poland is more of an Internet critic than anything else.
joniray
Broadway Star Joined: 3/27/04
#140re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:46pm
Emcee, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted. I will try to stay out of this now until I actually see the film.
Boy that review is depressing. Hope I end up totally disagreeing with him (apparently I did regarding Evita
#141re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:48pm
Appology accepted. It's hard online. It's all a fine line in type. I'm trying to clarify in a way that makes sense, but it's really difficult. Alas.
I'm still excited.
The opening of the review really turned me off. It's just... critcally, a bit of a cheap trick to just make fun of material, IMO. Granted, he backs it up later, but still.
#142re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:52pm
I feel like the review is pretty... ignorant of the material. In general.
Also, just a side-thought: some people have complained that the loft looks too spacious. Okay, quite honestly, I don't think it's far-fetched. I remember explaining the story of RENT to my mother one day, and she had cut in with, "Lofts are actually VERY desirable."
So, really, a big wide open space for a loft seems fairly realistic to me. But... that's ALL it is, remember. And those really high ceilings? Must be freezing in the winter.
/end tangent.
"Oh, good. After all, I can rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time, and I can do it with my eyes closed while whistling 'The Entertainer.' That's rhythm for you."
~ Snaps, proving that White Boys CAN have rhythm
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#143re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:57pm
You must all understand this:
That review is only one person's OPINION he is entitled to it.
On the other hand it seems he took way too much time trying to come up with "witty" (and i use that term loosely) mock lyrics to "Seasons of Love" instead of getting his song titles correct.
So it's very hard to take his review seriously from my POV.
But again he's entitled to his opinion.
#144re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 2:57pm
I found his review hard to take seriously, especially as he mispelled words, had a poor grasp of capitalization, and didn't get character names or song titles right, which is fairly inexcusable as everyone at the screening I was at recieved this MEGA detailed press packet so you wouldn't forget who was who.
C'est la vie.
And some people are really going to hate the crap out of this movie anyhow, because it doesn't hide the fact that it is a musical. They're just going to bust out in song where ever the hell they feel like it, and that makes some people uncomfortable.
Now what would you say if today I started over?
Without a thing but this taped together four leaf clover
And I'll pretend like everything is already alright
And I'll run toward the sun till the castle's out of sight
#145re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 3:13pmI can't bring myself to click that link, but, i'm guessing it was overall a negative review? ::sigh:: Singingbackups review makes me nervous too, because whast you said about Columbus just simply "pointing and shooting" and not much esle is EXACTLY what I was afraid of from day one...Then again, this movie looks BEAUTIFUL judging from the previews, so, gah, I don't know. I am SUCH a nervous wreck over this whole movie it's not even funny. I swear I'm going to have a meltdown before the 23...
Sunchips: Best Kept Secret in the chip aisle!!
jynni
Understudy Joined: 1/8/05
#146re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 3:51pm
Wasn't David Poland the critic who posted the first review of the Phantom movie and proclaimed that it was a masterpiece and would win the Oscar for Best Picture?
If he's the same guy then I really don't put too much stock in what he says.
MoonOnAstring
Stand-by Joined: 10/30/05
#147re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 4:06pm
That's the one, jynni
I got blood on my cello! - Lauren Molina
MrMidwest
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/8/05
#148re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 4:08pm
Frankly the Poland review is a little better than I expected considering that he said the trailer practically made him throw up a few months back.
Anyway, let's remember that this is the same guy who loved POTO, so obviously he has a broad range of opinions about movies. Hopefully I won't agree with him about Rent.
"The gods who nurse this universe think little of mortals' cares. They sit in crowds on exclusive clouds and laugh at our love affairs. I might have had a real romance if they'd given me a chance. I loved him, but he didn't love me. I wanted him, but he didn't want me. Then the gods had a spree and indulged in another whim. Now he loves me, but I don't love him." - Cole Porter
TimeSuckage
Stand-by Joined: 10/18/05
#149re: My Rent Movie Review - SPOILERS WITHIN
Posted: 11/4/05 at 4:24pm
Hah, jynni, I hope you are right that Poland made that prediction about Phantom. That's funny.
Joniray, I think I get what you're saying and agree that if a director makes significant changes to material and those changes hurt the show, that's dumb and unacceptable. I was interpreting a lot of the "St. Jonathan" stuff as people saying NO CHANGES should be made because he is not here to approve them, and from your comments it is clear I was misinterpreting. If someone staged Hamlet without the "To be or not to be..." speech I'd be pissed, too.
It's very silly of David Poland to knock the staging of La Vie Boheme. That's very iconographic in fans' minds and I think people would call for Columbus's head on a platter if he didn't stage it the way he did.
SmartPenguin, it has been my experience that engaging elitist snobs in intelligent discourse is an exercise in futility, and since I'm such an untrustworthy and ignorant newbie why would you waste your valuable time? That's cool.
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