In 1975, Saigon was full of white bar girls- Page 3
In 1975, Saigon was full of white bar girls
#50in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/21/09 at 10:15pm
I know ray, but it gave me a chance to explain my opinion more clearly, so I took it. 
....but the world goes 'round
#51in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/21/09 at 10:20pm
Taz, I agree with your full post, except that I do think that even in high school productions there should be an understanding of the race politics that concern a play/musical. As I said earlier, there are so many shows, good shows that lend themselves to teach students about acting and theater in general, that do not call for roles to be cast with a specific race or ethnicity. MISS SAIGON is not one of them. I think the contrast between the Vietnamese prostitutes and the white soldiers reflects a certain history of oppression and imperialism that is completely lost when you cast a bunch of white girls for the roles.
I feel the same way if it's the other way around. For example, I think AUGUST: OC is a show about white people. I don't think Violet's comments regarding Native Americans (and by extension Tracy Lett's comments regarding whites relationship to Native Americans) will come across as intensely when Phylicia Rashad takes over.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#52in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/21/09 at 10:28pm
I still can't get over those Ragtime pictures. A white Coalhouse? I can't imagine the show's writers envisioned their show being performed that way.
If you don't have the actors to cast the show appropriately, don't do it.
#53in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/21/09 at 10:46pm
And just to be clear, I'm referring to roles where the ethnicity
is a fundamental motivation for a character's actions.
Unless, of course, it's intentionally reversed to make an artistic statement-- like Patrick Stewart as Othello, with an otherwise all-black cast.
So if someone did an avante-garde production of Ragtime where all of the actors were black except for characters like Coalhouse, Sarah, and Booker T. Washington, that'd be one thing, but all-white? That's a little much.
Granted, there are shows, like Little Shop of Horrors, where you can conceivably have Crystal, Ronette, and Chiffon played by white girls even if that's not how the role was originally intended, and in Les Miserables, casting actors of multiple races was pretty successful-- the only time it felt weird to me was when a child character "grew up" to be someone of a totally different ethnicity.
When I was little, I used to watch the version of Cinderella with Brandy, and I never really thought of the fact that the characters who were supposed to be related were different races(though I was still frustrated that Cinderella wasn't blonde-- ha!), but I think if I was older when I saw it for the first time, it might have been distracting. (Victor Garber + Whoopi Goldberg = Paolo Montalban?)
In my pants, she has burst like the music of angels, the light of the sun! --Marius Pantsmercy
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#54in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/21/09 at 10:52pmI was actually wondering earlier: could Miss Saigon work with an Asian-American Chris? Is it more that he's white, or more that he's American?
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#55in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/21/09 at 11:05pm
More that he's American Alton Fitzgerald White, an African-American, was an understudy for Chris in the Broadway production, according to his website.
Alsom interestingly enough, late in the run, Margaret Ann Gates became the first Asian woman to play Ellen. I never saw her, but I bet it added a new dimension to the act 2 confrontation scene between Ellen and Kim in the hotel room. It also probably made Ellen's line about mistaking Kim for the chambermaid very odd.
#56in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 12:31amWhy would it be odd for an Asian-American Ellen to mistake Kim for a chambermaid?
This is Harvard, not a stripper bar...
#57in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 8:12am
"discussing color blind casting... i truly believe that it's meant for minorities to play white roles and not the other way around"
LOL
brochatkid
Stand-by Joined: 5/10/08
#58in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 8:42am
I saw the cast with Margaret Ann Gates. It really didn't make a difference that she was Asian; although, it was a little more interesting than other versions I'd seen because it added the level that perhaps Chris was looking for a replacement for Kim since he wasn't over her yet or even that Chris has a "type." It actually made his pain seem deeper in a weird way.
I think an Asian-American Chris would work fine and again bring a whole new level to the show. It would make the character more nuanced and portray his identity crisis as an American (or Asian-American in this case) even more.
#59in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 9:54am
I was actually wondering earlier: could Miss Saigon work with an Asian-American Chris? Is it more that he's white, or more that he's American?
It's been done -- Cliffton Hall is half Filipino.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#60in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 10:50am
"it added the level that perhaps Chris was looking for a replacement for Kim since he wasn't over her yet or even that Chris has a "type." It actually made his pain seem deeper in a weird way.
I think an Asian-American Chris would work fine and again bring a whole new level to the show. It would make the character more nuanced and portray his identity crisis as an American (or Asian-American in this case) even more."
Totally agree. Exactly my thoughts as well.
Ok. So still trying to understand this chambermaid thing, AdamGreer. So, is it my understanding that you only think white women would mistake an Asian woman as a chambermaid in a Asian hotel?
This is Harvard, not a stripper bar...
#61in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 11:45am
"it added the level that perhaps Chris was looking for a replacement for Kim since he wasn't over her yet or even that Chris has a "type." It actually made his pain seem deeper in a weird way."
That sounds extremely effective, actually.
When I was in college, my theater group did Othello. I was on the reading committee when it was proposed. Our group didn't really have many talented African-American men audition on a regular basis, so we were concerned about this. However, the directors has decided to go in a different direction by setting the show in the middle of the Afghanistan war (fatigues were a large part of the costume design). Othello was Arab in their vision, not African-American. Of course, a very white guy was cast, but make-up was beefed up, hair changed, etc and they pulled it off, I'll admit.
#62in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 11:48amso you put him in blackface basically, huh, jig?
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...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#63in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 12:49pm
so you put him in blackface basically, huh, jig?
We worked with what we had talent-wise to convey the message of the piece. I wasn't involved in the production itself, so I'm not sure exactly what the make-up folks did. It looked and worked on-stage, however, and I was definitely skeptical going in.
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#64in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 1:00pm
Yes, I saw once that there had been an Asian Ellen and I thought those same things. I think that I would enjoy that as someone who feels Chris never stopped loving Kim (I know a lot of people disagree).
Lizzie: Interesting! Did you see, or know anyone who saw, his performance?
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 4/22/09 at 01:00 PM
#65in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 1:05pmI didn't; I'm pretty sure he was the principle Chris only on the Asian tour (and DeeDee Lynn Magno, currently Nessarose in SF's Wicked, was Kim - they're now married). He was in the ensemble on the US 2nd nat tour, though.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#66in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/22/09 at 8:10pm
Here's the opposite, an all asian Falsettos 
I would have liked to have seen this
http://www.asianconnections.com/a/?article_id=1050
Nancy Reagan, meanest and thinnest of the first ladies moves into the white house. Yabba dabba! It's the eighties.
Updated On: 4/22/09 at 08:10 PM
#67in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/23/09 at 2:40am
Falsettos was boring!
How about an all white production of Color Purple?
#68in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/23/09 at 10:54pm
Hahahaha "Victor Garber + Whoopi Goldberg = Paolo Montalban?"
Like how the 1994 Carousel Revival cast sent shock waves through the audience when Tam came skipping out behind Enoch and the rest of the Snow children.
Matthew Dickens, an African-American, also understudied Chris in the Broadway production of Miss Saigon.
Updated On: 4/23/09 at 10:54 PM
Fan123
Broadway Star Joined: 8/30/08
#69in 1975, saigon was full of white bar girls
Posted: 4/24/09 at 6:39amI'm not strongly one way or the other on this one. But what about (say) a town where most/all of the people interested in performing are white? I don't think that they should miss out on experiencing the many great musicals that deal with race. And such a 'white-bread' community might benefit more than most from the messages within those shows. As long as talented, interested performers of the correct race aren't being overlooked.
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