Evita white washing controversy?- Page 3
Evita white washing controversy?
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
#50Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 1:27am
Here's my thing, as an actor, and I get that race is an "iffy" subject. But, if you're saying that someone from Spain or Puerto Rico is a better choice to play Evita, then I'm confused. I mean, look at something like Fiddler on the Roof. So we're only allowed to have born, raised Jewish people in the part? I mean actors are actors. I'd hate to see the day when we're only allowed to play our specific struggles in life.
#51Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 1:37am
I think we should learn from this and also ensure that any actors in Rent or Angels in America actually have HIV. It's very problematic if HIV negative actors play HIV positive characters.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#52Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 1:38am
@qolbinau I really hope your comments are shedding at least a little bit of light on how ridiculous a lot of these arguments are.
Updated On: 9/14/17 at 01:38 AM
#53Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 2:13am
If race wasn't an issue in this show and particular production, how many black and Asian actors were submitted and considered for roles? (I'm guessing not many.)
I will say this specific case is a tricky one and not just black and white (ha). And I do know that Briana Carlson-Goodman is a wonderful actress and singer (I've seen her go on as an understudy in the Broadway revivals of Hair and Les Miz). The comments on this and other threads, however, are just awful and hurtful. Ignoring others' concerns and using people's struggles to make the privileged person the victim in the scenario? That's not cool in any situation, not even in a sarcastic way.
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#54Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 2:25am
qolbinau said: "I think we should learn from this and also ensure that any actors in Rent or Angels in America actually have HIV. It's very problematic if HIV negativeactors play HIV positive characters."
You're a bigoted idiot. I'm sorry for your life. Sorry that your privileged white life doesn't let you see the big picture here. I'm sorry you live a life full of hatred and viciousness. You're a great example of why you have the government you deserve.
If you had a tiny bit of sensitivity, you would know why minorities find these themes sensitive. You have zero empathy for what they have gone through. It is not defending the casting, it's a cry to be represented and included. It's not about the character's background, it's walking over dozens of latinx performers to cast Nick Adams as Magaldi (which actually happened here, I know who tried for the part). Who cares if a blond, blue eyed from Manhattan gets cast instead? It's that in this production, there is no balance of how minorities are represented; sure they can play the poor descamisados, if they're lucky. We would need 50 Hamiltons for decades to begin playing a balanced ground when it comes to any kind of minority in the performing arts. Instead, you call these people whiners for not seeing the OBVIOUS cultural background that all leads in this musical have. They don't fight for how history looked like, they fight for the same opportunity that these white performers have all over country.
Shame on you, you're pathetic. I don't wish you ever know what a minority goes through, they have every right to speak up against idiots like you before quietly watching how privileged performers will always have the best opportunities.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#55Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 2:26am
qolbinau said: "Exactly. These right-wing bigots need to understand that until 100% of white roles go to 0% of white people there is never going to be diversity or fairness for POC. I'm tired of the racism and bigotry and hate on this forum."
you are a racist idiot
"Contentment, it seems, simply happens. It appears accompanied by no bravos and no tears."
#56Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 2:42am
Hahahahaha blaxx are you real or a parody? I have zero sympathy if someone is outraged that Patti Lupone or another white woman played a historically real person who was a white woman if they are the best person for the role. I have a lot of sympathy and deep concern if someone is passed over for a role even though they were the most talented because they are not a white person.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#57Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 2:47am
You represent hateful racists and white supremacists well, kudos. One day, your white privilege will be your karma, love. Can't wait.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#58Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 2:55am
Your attitudes really scare me. The idea that you would accuse someone of being a white supremacist for calling out someone complaining that a real white person has been cast with a white person is crazy. You need to focus on the real issues. And you need to not assume that people challenging absurd ideas do so because they are privileged oppressors. For your information, I am mixed race (including white) and an oppressed minority myself in other demographic categories. This thread is essentially suggesting that it was 'wrong' to cast Patti LuPone, a white woman, in a white role. This is absurd. Absolutely absurd.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#59Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:05am
No, that is not what the controversy is about. It is about the FOUR leads of the musical being white, while there is no minority representation - get it?
Sadly, when this show opened in the 70's there wasn't a strong enough movement that exposed how poorly minorities are represented in the performing arts. Today, no thanks like people like you, these "controversies" happen for a good reason, there are thousands of performers that are tired of playing the token PC minority in the back row.
Scary is that people like you can't see this, your hatred is so big that you can't see the big picture. Eva could have been the daughter of two albinos. The issue is giving impression that only white performers are worthy of the parts, that is what is pathetic. And people like you, how dare you make fun of people with HIV to mock those who feel insulted? How low can you go?
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
Updated On: 9/14/17 at 03:05 AM
#60Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:13am
For those of us who are concerned about the lack of diversity in casting, maybe it is a case of picking the right battles sometimes?
To complain that a white woman has been cast to play a woman who really was white seems contrary to the actual definition of white-washing.
I would be more concerned about the kind of cultural tourism that may be inherent in the writing, but I fear that objecting to the likes of Andrew Lloyd Webber writing about Argentinian history will not open the door to more Argentinian writers having their work produced; it will just mean we will see shows by those same creatives, writing about experiences from their own milieu.
#61Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:14am
But you're being so disingenuous and are not being truthful Blaxx. First, the initial discussion in this thread focused solely on Eva not the other leads - and my comments should only be taken within that context. Second, calling out this outrage for what it is - absurd - does not mean that I think only white performers deserve to play the role. I would be very interested to see a non-white person play the role - but I'm not going to claim that a white person playing a real life white person is racist. It's just absurd.
Do you honestly believe in hindsight the part should not have gone to LuPone?
Also, I'm not mocking people with HIV - again what a dishonest, humourless but very stereotypical reaction. I'm mocking people like you. Because the idea that we now need to further segregate demographics into smaller and smaller pieces and demand representation is impractical, illogical and hypocritical.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 9/14/17 at 03:14 AM
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#62Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:25am
qolbinau said: "But you're being so disingenuous and are not being truthful. First, the initial discussion in this thread focused solely on Eva not the other leads - and my comments should only be taken within that context. Second, calling out this outrage for what it is - absurd - does not mean that I think only white performers deserve to play the roles. I would be very interested to see a non-white person play the role - but I'm not going to claim that a white person playing a real life white person is racist. It's just absurd.
Do you honestly believe in hindsight the part should not have gone to LuPone?
"
Don't play victim, look back and read all the embarrassingly hateful things you wrote just to have your point come across. For the nth time, an all white version of any show within OUR times, which has the potential to integrate minorities, speaks poorly of the production in regards to inclusivity, not to talent or production values. No one doubts the white woman's capacity; we frown upon the exclusion and segregation - do you get it?
It is fantastic that these white performers were leads in the 70's; consider with all the issues for cultural integration that your country goes through to ignore these extremely relevant matters.I would like for the creative team of this production to announce that that were no performers of diverse background within the 5 lead roles who were worthy of the parts, only white. Let's see how that would go for them.
In the end, it is the performers that will be under the microscope here; not the best position to be in.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#63Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:28am
My comments were not in reference to the idea that there is an all-white casting of this show - it was in reference to outrage that a white woman was playing a white woman. Stop taking my comments out of context. They were not written with the prior knowledge or understanding that there were complaints about casting of 5 leading white roles. Indeed - look back at the initial posts and you can see we were specifically talking about the casting of THE lead role.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 9/14/17 at 03:28 AM
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#64Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:30am
Also, I'm not mocking people with HIV - again what a dishonest, humourless butvery stereotypical reaction. I'm mocking people like you. Because the idea that we now need to further segregate demographics into smaller and smaller pieces and demand representation is impractical, illogicaland hypocritical.
"
Segregate is what not represent minorities means, just like in this production. Please look it up.
And yes you WERE using people with HIV to have your point come across, that is vile. And of course diversity seems impractical and illogical to you. Don't worry, there are TONS of all-white lead shows out there - enjoy!
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#65Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:32am
qolbinau said: "My comments were not in reference to the idea that there is an all-white casting of this show - it was in reference to outrage that a white woman was playing a white woman. Stop taking my comments out of context. They were not written with the prior knowledge or understanding that there were complaints about casting of 5 leading white roles. Indeed - look back at the initial posts and you can see we were specifically talking about the casting of THE lead role."
So, now that you know that all FIVE leads in this show are white performers, how do you feel? Please share!
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#66Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:33am
gypsy101 said: "we all agree white people should not play characters that are people of color.
Not sure I get this gypsy---should the reverse apply also?
#67Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:35am
You are crazily dishonest. Stop taking my comments out of context - they were referring to the casting of one role. Not all lead roles. And I very very much do not want to see all-white casts. In particular I have to say I think in general African American women are much better singers than white women. I would personally prefer to see an African American woman in almost any lead musical role than a white woman (with the exception of Bernadette Peters). Stop assuming I hold attitudes I don't hold. The only claim I make is that casting a white woman with a white woman is not racism.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#68Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:42am
Great! Why avoid my question? Forget about the main character, please share your feelings and thoughts about NSMT's casting of all the Evita leads with white performers.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#69Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:51am
It seems highly unlikely to me that given the racial diversity of the United States of America that a white person could possibly be the best choice for all 5 roles. Additionally, given that non-white people make up a significant proportion of the population (is it around half or more?) it especially seems highly unlikely they could not find non-white people to cast in lead roles. So hearing about the wider issue here (which again is not what I took issue with) I do share some concern about how this outcome happened. Hopefully whoever cast this show will reavulate their processes to see if some genuine racism has taken place because people should be treated as individuals and cast on talent.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#70Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 3:59am
qolbinau said: "It seems highly unlikely to me that given the racial diversity of the United States of America that a white person could possibly be the best choice for all 5 roles. Additionally, given that non-white people make up a significant proportion of the population (is it around half or more?) it especially seems highly unlikely they could not find non-white people to cast in lead roles.So hearing about the wider issue here (which again is not what I took issue with) I do share some concern about how this outcome happened. Hopefully whoever cast this show will reavulate their processes to see if some genuine racism has taken place because people should be treated as individuals and cast on talent."
Thank you, hope now you can see the concern from how this casting came to be; to the director's statements which indicate how he couldn't care less about it.
The fact that someone like Maroulis or Adams have no concern being involved with this white Evita is pathetic.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
#71Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 7:41am
SweetLips said: "gypsy101 said: "we all agree white people should not play characters that are people of color.
Not sure I get this gypsy---should the reverse apply also?
"
How many of the "White" roles do we have though? Are those roles specificly about the experiences of native Europeans and people of European descent? Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to most all-"White" productions I've seen.
#72Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 9:01am
If all those controversy makers would put their attention and efforts in actually showing human in every situation and reason we would be so much further in the quest for equality. Every misplaced comment such as this Evita casting (and all the other non-race situations that were deliberately transformed into a race thing, like we discussed on this board before) puts us 10 steps back. Bravo.
Updated On: 9/14/17 at 09:01 AM#73Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 9:12am
SweetLips said: "Not sure I get this gypsy---should the reverse apply also?"
Of course not. It's a double agenda. Only if you feel like your ancestors have been treated badly you have the right to behave like Hitler today. Repeating history but this time the other way around. A nice "get even game", to look extra human.
#74Evita white washing controversy?
Posted: 9/14/17 at 9:40am
Dancingthrulife2 said: "SweetLips said: "gypsy101 said: "we all agree white people should not play characters that are people of color.
Not sure I get this gypsy---should the reverse apply also?"
How many of the "White" roles do we have though? Are those roles specificly about the experiences of native Europeans and people of European descent? Unfortunately, this doesn't apply to most all-"White" productions I've seen."
The only roles that should be seen as "white" are those that are in direct contrast to roles for POC, like the Gellmans in Caroline, or Change or Lieutenant Cable in South Pacific, or even Woody Mahoney in Finian's Rainbow. These are shows that explicitly deal with race and that is really the ONLY time that a role should be seen as "white."
I will admit I am not informed enough of the nuances of South American race relations to wade into the actual conversation about casting Evita.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
Videos