Effie and CC's Parentage- Page 2
Effie and CC's Parentage
silent
Broadway Star Joined: 2/21/04
#25re: Effie and CC's Parentage
Posted: 12/28/06 at 2:15am
Thank you somethingwicked --- finally someone gets where I'm coming from. I have no problem with the song itself. I just hate how it's incorporated into the story and it doesn't make sense as far as Deena is concerned. And it's not like a scene where she confronts Curtis wasn't already in the play. They could have gone with that one.
And Lorrell's solo IS important. It is her moment to express her feelings as far as Jimmy is concerned.
#26re: Effie and CC's Parentage
Posted: 12/28/06 at 10:54amWhat confrontation in the play? All she sings is "You don't care about my dreams. That's why I'm going." and "I can't stay anymore. Goodbye, Curtis." Not exactly a fulfilling confrontation scene if you ask me. And I do see where you're coming from with "Listen". But honestly, even with Beyonce belting her ass off, does she still even come close to Jennifer Hudson? True, Diana Ross could never blow the roof off of a song the way that Florence Ballard could, but she most definately had the vocal range for "Listen", though would probably not deliver it with as many "growls" and soul as Beyonce gave it. I mean, listen to her belted high notes in "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me". Then again, this isn't Diana Ross, is it? This is Deena.
"Sing the words, Patti!!!!" Stephen Sondheim to Patti LuPone.
Funny Face
Broadway Star Joined: 7/6/06
#27re: Effie and CC's Parentage
Posted: 12/28/06 at 11:14am
somethingwicked- You make a very valid point, and the one problem I had with the movie is the fact that Deena isn't convincing as being tremendously untalented. However, I don't think it detracts that significantly from the story. I think it also adds a different dimension to the story, if your willing to dig a little deeper. Deena could have very well had a great amount of talent, but no-one takes notice because she is so breathtakingly beautiful. Arguably, the same thing has happened to Beyonce in real life. I have heard numerous people mention that they never thought Beyonce was all that great of a singer until they heard "Listen" (On this very message board to boot). Everyone knows she's a beautiful pop-star, but until recently people, myself included, didn't realize how great of a voice she actually has.
There is no way to justify the character having that type of voice and never using it
Because she is so beautiful, and because she was pushed to the forefront just because of her beauty, people, (most importantly Curtis) have always given her the message that she is the "pretty one" not the talented one, and she played that role, until that scene where she decides to be her own person and let her talent show and not let anyone tell her who she should she be. It all goes with the theme of the movie of how producers made music and singers something they're not just so it could sell.
And still, it is obvious that Deena, no matter how good she is, never had/will have the power of Effie. You can see it in the "Fake Your Way to the Top" scene, when Jimmy first teaches them the song and each of the girls sings the refrain, and Effie is the one who belts it out with the most power. It's obvious who the most talented of the bunch is, even though they are all fantastic.
#28re: Effie and CC's Parentage
Posted: 12/28/06 at 12:17pm
A few comments and such...
Curtis would never have let Deena record "Listen." For starters, it's definately far too soul-searching and personal a song. We learn early on that Curtis only cares about music that will sell and make people feel happy or satisfied while driving around. Most of the music that Jimmy and the Dreams record is also pretty shallow without real content. Remember, Curtis doesn't like "message songs" or anything that would put the listener in a different mood or make them think. "Listen" is far too introspective. I get why they had Curtis in the booth but I wish we had seen him walking by the studio and seeing Deena and Wayne laying something down and then going in to see what was up. That way it's like Deena is trying to do her own thing and can also direct all her words to Curtis as well.
I can understand Effie and CC having a father and yet still being on their own. We learn that their mother is dead and if Mr. White was out working all day to provide for the family then the two would be along together. They probably had to be each other's parent as he was out earning money (this gives me the only reason why CC would stay and not try to fight for Effie to stay in the group - when you're dirt poor and get some cash, it can be as powerful as any drug). Also, once you leave the nest, your family dynamic definately changes. I know that if I was home my family would give me all the love and attention I ever could want but I'm not at home. Growing up, going to college, and eventually the "real world" causes you to create a new family for yourself. Sure, Effie and CC had a father who clearly loved them but he wasn't there. He was in Detroit and they were on the road. From the movie, I would assume that CC had been sending Effie money for a while (remember, Curtis does buy her out and Effie even says she blew through half a million dollars in two years). I'm sure he did feel guilty but he had stars and dollar signs in his eyes and she was being a tempermental diva who couldn't sustain. She needed to be kicked out for the better of the group but the way it was handled was wrong.
I wish that "Ain't No Party" had stayed in the film. Dreamgirls is about three girls, not two and a backup girl - three. Lorrell needs that number as it's the only time we ever see her have a moment by herself without Effie and Deena around. It also gives Jimmy more to feed off of going into "I Meant You No Harm." He's clearly doped up a bit and woozy and then has his girlfriend give him the third degree and has to go perform. "Ain't No Party" gives Jimmy a reason to go wild and perform an impromptu rap. He's tired of singin' these same sad songs and needs to let loose from everything. The scene works as is but everyone I know who has seen the movie and not known the score has felt Lorrell needed a moment right there.
Z.
"You're not a kid anymore, Robby. I don't think you'll ever be a kid again, kiddo." - Joanne, Company
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