Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?- Page 6
Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
#125re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 12:49am
BroadwayGirl107, I'm not 100-percent sure what point you're making in response to the comment of mine that you quote.
In any case, perhaps this quotation (from the linked website) will address it:
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/holocaust/victims2.html
"Laws against the propagation of 'lives not worthy of life', which legalised eugenic sterilisation, targeted Gypsies, black Germans and disabled people. In addition, in the Nazis' first year in office, many Gypsies were imprisoned, condemned as 'habitual criminals'.
"They were also mentioned in the 1935 Nuremberg Laws, directed primarily against Jews. These laws forbade Germans from marrying 'Jews, Negroes and Gypsies'. A Nazi policy statement that year declared: 'In Europe generally, only Gypsies and Jews come under consideration as members of an alien people.' "
If that doesn't clarify it for you, let me know.
#126re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 1:30amFor all of you who are saying that color-blind casting is ALWAYS the way to go, are you honestly telling me that an all-white production of A Raisin in the Sun or The Piano Lesson or Dreamgirls would fly??
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
BroadwayGirl107
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/26/03
#127re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 1:43am
nobodyhome, My point is that the racial things brought up really don't matter in the context of the story because it is quite clear that they are after Captain Von Trapp for his services in the Third Reich.
You brought up how the Nazi's racial policies would be central to one's objection to them. I agree. But what I'm not getting is why it would matter if Maria was black. Captain Von Trapp disagrees with their policies the same regardless; it doesn't conflict with his obejection to them...
#128re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 1:58amRight on Priest.
I got rid of my teeth at a young age because... I'm straight. Teeth are for gay people. That's why fairies come and get them
#129re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 1:59am
But SticktoPriest, the shows you mention are obviously related to race.
There are some shows that are NOT about being white, the way DREAMGIRLS and A RAISIN IN THE SUN are very race-specific, in those cases, color-blind shouldn't be an issue.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#130re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 2:09amI'm sorry, it's probably the limitations of my mind, but I'm so confused by how we got to this point of misunderstanding. I really can't answer you, BroadwayGirl107. I've tried to write responses, but it's just too complicated. I can only suggest that a re-read of the last few pages might clarify things, if you feel like doing that. If not (or if you do that and it's still not clear), I apologize that it's beyond my powers to answer you.
#131re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 2:24am
Lost --
To echo what Nobodyhome said: MAME's ethnicity is indeed important to the piece, as written. Bette Midler, in fact supposedly backed out of the proposed television production of MAME in the early 90s, because upon going back and reading the original books by Patrick Dennis it was very clear to her that Mame's status as a W.A.S.P. was critical to the character and storyline, and she felt that she, who had built her career on her Jewish ethnicitiy, would never be able to pull that off.
That doesn't mean a Jewish or black actress "couldn't" play Mame, but it would require a certain dispension of belief if you are indeed asking the audience to consider the actual Upper East Side society world of the 1920s the character Mame supposedly inhabits.
I suppose a lot of the arguement (including the initial one raised in this thread) is what your goal is as a director. There isn't anything wrong with casting asian actors in the DIARY OF ANNE FRANK - but it does change the story, if you are interested in exploring the piece as a historical footnote. Ditto THE SOUND OF MUSIC.
If I were in Meg's shoes - I wouldn't really have a problem with casting the black actress as Maria, if she really were the absolute best person for the role. But if I knew that and was still actively auditioning the show (which it sounds like she is doing) I would probably increase circulation of the casting notice with the hope of trying to generate a more ethnically diverse cast - so that the *issue* of Maria's race wouldn't be the main point of the production...
Updated On: 4/30/07 at 02:24 AM
#132re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 2:47am
I can't remember if this is in the musical, but in the play Auntie Mame the Upsons propose to Mame that they (the Upsons together with Mame) should purchase the vacant lot next door to the Upsons' house as a present for Patrick and Pegeen so they can build a house there. The Upsons advise Mame that they have to move quickly. The danger, the Upsons tell Mame, is that someone named Abraham Epstein—who represents what they call "the wrong kind"— is about to buy the property. As of now, the area is restricted only up to their property line so they feel an obligation to make that the neighborhood remain restricted.
Even if that specific issue is not in the musical, it's still quite clear that the Upsons are bigots who would be horrified at the prospect of Jewish in-laws. They'd be horrified at the thought of Jewish neighbors.
So to cast an actress whose persona trades on her Jewish background would strain credulity to the breaking point.
Salene
Broadway Star Joined: 3/26/07
#133re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 3:03amWhen will the (casting) decision be made? (Forgive me if this was mentioned already.)
COOOOLkid
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/15/05
#134re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 3:20am^ I'm curious about that, too.
"Hey, you! You're the worst thing to happen to musical theatre since Andrew Lloyd Webber!"
-Family Guy
#135re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 4:06am
Can Maria be black? Absolutely not. Can a black actress play Maria effectively? Sure.
Maria (the character) can't be black for precisely the reason why many in this thread are saying she can be black: race isn't a major theme in The Sound Of Music. You simply can't have a story about a white man marrying a black woman with the rise of the Nazis as a backdrop without race being the central issue in the work. If anyone were to write a play or movie with the above premise and didn't make any mention of the racist policies of the regime, the result would not only be insipid, but also distasteful.
So why do I think it's okay to have a black actress play Maria? Well, The Sound of Music has been around for a long, long time and both the story and its characters are known by pretty much everybody. It's reasonable in this case to assume that the audience will understand that what they're watching is a black woman playing a white character.
Still, I think it would be a good idea to address the issue in the director's notes in the show's programme because it's conceivable that some audience members may think that it's actually your intent to treat Maria (the character rather than just the actress) as black. If that were the case, I think the show would be offensive because (unless you illegally make major changes to the script) the Nazis would come across as almost benign.
Updated On: 4/30/07 at 04:06 AM
ktennenbaum
Swing Joined: 11/2/06
#136re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 10:40am
According to Hirsch's book, their musical touring life was abruptly halted when Hitler invaded Austria. The Captain brought his family together and said, "We are standing at the open grave of Austria." He asked them if they wanted to stay or to leave. Despite the hardships sure to face them, they had no moral choice but to depart. Although it was a terrible blow to leave their home and all their belongings behind, when they learned that Himmler himself had taken over their house, their grief was almost unbearable.
In 1938, Austria was annexed to Adolf Hitler’s German Empire - the Anschluss of 1938 - and unlike many Austrian aristocrats, the Von Trapps were horrified. Georg made no secret of his feelings; allegedly, the Gestapo ordered the von Trapps to display the Hakenkreuzflagge (swastika flag) for Hitler's visit to Salzburg, but Georg replied, "I can do a better job with one of my Persian carpets." "Three times he refused the Nazis," said Renaud Doucet, the director of the Sound of Music show in Vienna. Twice he refused to become the commander of a U-boat, and command of a submarine base. "I have sworn my oath of loyality to only one Emperor" was his answer, and von Trapp rejected the offer.
And then he refused to sing at Hitler's birthday party. With that third refusal, the family realised they had to get out. They took a train and crossed into Italy, and at midnight on the same day, Hitler closed the borders." The von Trapps later learned that Heinrich Himmler, the head of the Gestapo himself, had moved into the family home."
(Excerpts from Maria's books, Georg's books and istria.net)
Do you really think that the horrors of the Nazi regime were not "race related"? Do you really think that Von Trapp left his homeland and everything he owned to come to America where he had no family or friends or career, because he just didn't feel like working for the third reich? He abhorred their policies and he was afraid that his family would pay for his refusal to join the reich.
The goal of the Third Reich was to "cleanse" the world and make it an aryan (white) one. They didn't consider Jews to be "white". Blonde hair and blue eyes, that was white. And if you look at the demographics of Austria in the 1930's, there was no African (black) presence at all.
I am an actress and there are many roles I would love to play but realize that I simply am not suited, I am not saying that this actress is not a good actress and a wonderful talent. I'm also not saying that you couldn't cast her and have a terrific production of "The Sound of Music". But you will be changing the context of the story.
"I recognize happiness by the sound it makes when it leaves!"
Jacques Prevert
#137re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 11:02amI think the best person for the role is always the way to go. However, I think it would be a big mistake to cast an African American as Maria and then ignore this fact. Is there a way that you can use this to your advantage? I mean - think what the Nazi reaction to the Von Trapp clan would be if not only was Captain Von Trapp not being cooperative, but he married a black woman! I say cast the best person, and then use it to your advantage. Don't try to be "ok, so just ignore the fact that this is historically inaccurate."
Madame Morrible: "So you take the chicken, now it must be a white chicken. The corpse can be any color. And that is the spell for lost luggage!" - The Yellow Brick Road Not Taken
Fenchurch
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/16/06
#138re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 4/30/07 at 11:07am
Your quotes and citing hardly shed any light on the subject at all.
The bottom line is whether or not this actress can sing and act the role well enough to make an audience believe she is playing this highly fictionalized REPRESENTATION of an historical figure.
Very often theater portrays historical figures in larger than life, even surrealistic ways.
We can do that because the idea of the person is what is important, the idea and ideals that the person signify are so strong, that a realistic representation of that person's features is almost irrelevant.
Does is matter what Dido looks like? What Aeneas looks like? Can they be black/white/purple/brown/black/ten feet tall/two feet tall/completely represented by puppetry/lighting/children/dogs/projections of crowns on a stage?
Of course.
Maria in SOM has acheived this status. Put her in the right clothes and give her a guitar with a slew of rugrats on her knees and Larry "Bud" Melman (RIP) could portray Maria.
So give me a break about a couple of shades of skin tone. The problem that you have with this is what the skin tone represents/class/history of discrimination/etc.
That is a problem that YOU have, not the actress trying out for this role. It has nothing to do with her.
"Fenchurch is correct, as usual."
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#140re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 5/8/07 at 3:41pmI still wanna know if she got the role.
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misschung
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/18/07
#141re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 5/8/07 at 4:01pm
"Maria in SOM has acheived this status. Put her in the right clothes and give her a guitar with a slew of rugrats on her knees and Larry "Bud" Melman (RIP) could portray Maria."
I wouldn't take it that far, but I think the point has been made that this is the director's choice. Whichever choice she makes will effect the direction of the production, but I dont think we are all ever going to agree on this subject.
The morning star always gets wonderful bright the minute before it has to go --doesn't it?
#142re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 8:51amBump
What great ones do the less will prattle of
#143re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 4:23pm
I know that this is an old thread, but guess what??????
There are black people in Austria. I've never been there, but I have been to some of the surrounding countries (Germany, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Italy) and there are black people in those countries and I am 100% positive that there are AT LEAST 3,000 Black Austrians. Even here in Russia, there are 40,000 black people. Also, people of African descent have lived in Germany for over 1,000 years and I'm sure that there is a similar history for Austria. There were black Austrians in Austria in 1938.
#144re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 4:28pmWow, another old favorite!
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
#145re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 5:29pmI thought of this thread when Nikki Renee Daniels sang The Sound of Music on July 4th last year.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
SporkGoddess
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/27/05
#146re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 5:56pm
Now I want to know if that woman got the part 
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
#147re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 5:59pm
If Nikki Renee Daniels were ever cast as Maria, I would see it.
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
gypsy4
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/07
#148re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/16/08 at 7:37pmIs the orinal poster still posting on here if so did she get the part. I don't care about race if there talented enough give them the role.
jimmycurry01
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/05
#149re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/17/08 at 2:25am
When considering the presence of the Nazis is the show I can see how some may think race to be an issue within the context of it. I, however, do not believe that race is a central issue within the script. The Nazis rise to power is, but there was more to the Nazi mentality than race alone, and the issue of race is not specifically brought up in The Sound of Music.
We are not dealing with South Pacific, or Ragtime here. In those shows race is most definitely an issue, even THE issue in the center of the stories.It would therefore not make any logical sense to cast a black Nellie or a white Coalhouse.
I believe it is just as acceptable to cast a black Maria in the Sound of Music as it is to cast a black Lizzie Curry in 110 in the Shade and can be just as brilliant and acclaimed.
I should also state that I do realize that Brian Stokes Mitchell has played both Coalhouse and Emile, but his Emile was in concert where the score was the main focus, not a fully realized production, I think that makes a difference.
Updated On: 10/17/08 at 02:25 AM
LadyDramaturg2
Featured Actor Joined: 8/21/08
#150re: Can Maria (Sound of Music) be black?
Posted: 10/17/08 at 2:00pmBigFatBlonde: why did you Bump?
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