Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)- Page 8

#176Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

Kad said: "Her anecdotes- all about older white patrons- are experiences that I, a middle-class white boy, have had with that exact same group. I have dealt with that group of theatre patron very closely in two of my past jobs. They claim seats that aren't theirs- ushers often are needed to dislodge them, sometimes only after much cajoling. They shush and fuss and gripe. She offers no evidence of any act or word that is unambigiuously racist in those accounts, other than the fact they happened and they happened to her, a black woman."

I think this is an important point to make.  Most people have no clue why individuals behave rudely towards them.  When you're a person of color in a space that is white and elite and those people are rude to you, you won't necessarily think that they are rude to everyone.  We all know racists exist, so when older white people are rude to African-Americans, unless you personally see them being rude to non-African-Americans, you might attribute their behavior to racism just as easily as you would attribute it to some other characteristic.  Does that mean that everything is racist??  No.

 

#178Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

I was accused of being racist in this thread as well, but I don't recall ever stating that anyone else was racist. That particular accusation seems to be going both ways.

For me the issue is how theatre can be more inclusive--the demographics of the United States are changing and many other modes of entertainment are trying to tap into different markets to stay viable.  I do think that it is tough to know what happened the day Ms. Morisseau attended the theatre and sat next to the older white woman.  But I think her Op-Ed raises larger issues about the theatre that can be discussed, independent of the two individuals involved.

#180Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

"Jane2 said: "Diva Prof said "Assumed income level because she didn't have her own ticket? " 

NO. NO ASSUMPTION was made. A question was asked.  My comments, if you are referring to me, come from not believing the whole story. She may have been the richest person on the planet. So why didn't she use a credit card? Why did she comment she didn't have the money because she hadn't received her "award winning" check? Oh, come on.

And, speaking for myself, is gum chewing assumed to be a black "thing?" You mean she mentioned gum chewing as a racist comment? I never heard that before. Most people I've seen chewing gum are white. You sound racist in assuming they are black."

Clarification, I was told in the post above that I SOUNDED racist.

#182Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

broadwaybelter said: "I am aware I intimidated you with by exposing your lack of resourcefulness and general knowledge of history of race in America. Well, at the very least, you're not denying that you engage in this behavior. I'll take the small victories where I can.

"

With respect, belter, your historical argument is confused. Neither race nor racism are "facts" in the scientific sense. They are social constructions that vary from society to society, based on who is in power, who has the greater numbers, etc. Read a history of Japan if you want learn about hundreds of years of racism without any Western influence until the mid-19th century. This isn't to say social constructions aren't "real", since they result in offenses from segregation to lynching, only to say they are constructed rather that inherent, and are therefore liable to considerable variation.

Most posters here are defining racism in terms of individual intent, which is another way to define it and perhaps seems the most common sensical. But Marxism--not a dirty word in my book--with its concern for group and relative power in relationships argues that racism is only worthy of the name when the group in question has the power to implement and enforce discriminatory policies. So, in the Marxist view, although a black individual may have derogatory feelings about white people, that individual doesn't have the power to act out those feelings in a significant manner. So s/he is not "racist" in the sense of group power dynamics, which is the central concern of Marxist ideology.

Since we were talking about two individuals, however, it shouldn't surprise us that most people are using definitions of race and racism based on individual intent. 

ETA: I have since seen that Liza's Headband quoted a source that summed up my remarks here quite nicely: "prejudice + power = racism". That is essentially the Marxist argument and it has its usefulness. But as others have noted, imposing group constructions on two individuals can be problematic, if not misleading.

#184Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

Kringas, like I've said multiple times, you and I are not on the same page. We're not talking about the same thing. Yes, of course there's racism in this country, in this world. No one denies that in this thread. I personally do not deny that a black person can be sensitive and "touchy."

However, I don't think that's what some of us are talking about. I know that at least a few of us took umbrage at individual accusations of racism. I don't want to repeat this again, and it seems like you don't want to address it.

I'm tired of this. Nite!

#186Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

O. M. G. 

I know I said good nite, but O.M.G.

#188Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

Kringas, I don't know you but I think you seem like a nice guy. I'm going to end my time in  this thread with that thought!

#190Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

"Race" and "racist" are just words, just symbols to which we arbitrarily assign meaning, like any other words. They have different meanings based on the context and intent in which they're used, but they mean nothing by themselves. White people may have created the social construct of race, but you, broadwaybelter, are perpetuating it by assigning culturally learned behaviors to specific races, and making it into an "us" versus "them" situation. Being a vocal audience member, or being a silent audience member, have nothing to do with race (which doesn't exist), they have to do with culture and social customs. Some behaviors are acceptable in a certain milieu, others are not. I don't go to a movie theater in Baldwin Hills and expect to have a quiet movie experience, for instance, and that's fine. It's understood that people will be talking to the screen at that theater. Likewise, I don't go to the ballet and expect to be able to shout things at the dancers. There are social rules specific to every institution and individual locale that have been developed through decades and centuries of habit and mutual agreement.

Now, I have no idea if the award winning playwright's behavior was acceptable or not. I wasn't there, don't know the show, etc. But if anything, this was a culture clash, not a racial incident. You began your last post by asking what is whiteness, and then went on to refer to the "norm of whiteness," as if there is one normative behavior for being white. I find that a little troubling. Even Charley admits that this one incident is not what's important, that it's the cumulative effect of racial aggressions that's what's really the issue here. It's possible Jane misread or misunderstood the show's intent and the acceptable audience behaviors for it; it's possible she's just easily annoyed (made more probable by the gum comment) and lashed out. It's also possible Dominique wasn't aware of her own behaviors and the annoyance they might cause in others. But to unequivocally slap on the "R" word to this situation and dismiss it as whitey being elitist is not productive. It doesn't address the issue, and in fact shuts down conversation, because it automatically puts Jane in the wrong when what is needed is an agreement on what went wrong in this particular social situation, what caused it, and what both ladies should have done differently.

#192Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

Charley Kringas Inc said: "Like I've said multiple times, whether or not you think she's overreacting, she does indicate that her reaction is in line with a long series of similar, racially charged events. That's the important thing here, the cumulative effect of a structurally racist society. The concept of the microaggression isn't new.

"

It does make one wonder if she's had so many similar situations in theater* maybe she, as a person - not a black person, really doesn't understand how to behave.

*assuming these situations are all theater related because if not then the quoted comment has no bearing on this discussion.

#194Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

broadwaybelter wrote "I would love to meet Debbie. She sounds like a sensible person."

Oh, good. I was concerned that my point may have been too subtle, but it appears that you got it. I'll try to pass your message on to Debbie, but she's pretty much avoided by everyone these days (except maybe her meth dealer, depending on where she is at present in her addiction cycle). She's rather toxic, you know. (But of course you know!)

#196Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

I said I was done with this thread, but this gets me angry- providing this is a true story - 

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT  "OLD WHITE WOMAN " IS A RACIST? JUST BECAUSE SHE ASKED SOMEONE TO BE QUIETER AND THAT PERSON IS BLACK?

You have no business making that accusation unless you are living inside  her  mind. Period.

#198Award Winning Playwright Almost Slaps a Theatre Patron (and what that apparently says about our theatre)

Kind of sad this is the longest thread about Playwrights Horizon, and it has nothing to do with any of the great work they put onstage...