Audra Can't Be in "Sunday In The Park"
Audra Can't Be in "Sunday In The Park"
Mr. Tuttle
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/17/03
#0Audra Can't Be in "Sunday In The Park"
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:35pm
That's what a poster said on All That Crap. There's an unfortunate discussion on that message board about how Audra can't play Dot because she is an African American and the painting shows that Dot is white.
And yet another step back in time......
Ignorance is temporary. Stupidity last forever.
Watch out BWW...
HE'S BACK.
Matt_G
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/1/04
#1re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:36pmI can't think of any actress I would rather see more in the role.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
BT
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/16/04
#2re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:41pmAudra could completely carry the role of Dot. If we start limiting the cast to people who look like the folks in the painting I'm afraid it is going to start sounding pretty horrible. The beauty of the theater is that his can help us see things in new ways ...
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
#3re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:47pmIt's unsettling to see a talented actor cast in a part not written for their race/gender. If you sat through Alley Sheedy in Hedwig and the Angry Inch, you'd know what i mean. The answer is to write more shows where the character can be of any race. Or more parts written for minorities.
'The Devil be hitting me!'--Whitney Houston
#4re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:47pmWhoever made that statement originally is a moron. And obviously they know absolutely nothing about theatre. Audra can do anything she puts her mind to and has obviously been cast in the role - so there are others who agree.
"I don't really get the ending,all i can go with is when after several months,Judith saw Pat sang,and later she kissed him on the toilet,after that the story back to where Pat went down from the stage after he'd sung,and he went to the italian lady.I just don't get it,what Judith exatcly meant when he kissed Pat that she had seen,and did Pat end up together with The Italian Lady?Please help me,thank u very much!"
Quote from someone on IMDB in reference to a movie he/she didn't understand. Such grammar!
BT
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/16/04
#5re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:50pm
Dear Lord midtown - keeping black actors away from "Sunday" because of Seurat's colors in his painting is about the most stupid thing I have ever heard. That woman has a glorious voice and is also an amazing actor. The musical is all about blending colors and light - what a way to prove the point.
I suppose you're offended that Gary Coleman in Avenue Q is being played by a woman.
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
#6re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:53pmWell, Audra can't convince me she's white. That doesn't mean shes not brillant. Not everything has to be so 'PC' that judgement is lost on who to cast in a role. Here's Michael Cerveris in Jellys Last Jam! Now THAT would be moronic.
'The Devil be hitting me!'--Whitney Houston
kitkatgirl54
Leading Actor Joined: 5/19/04
#7re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:54pm
midtowngym, the reason ally sheedy sucked as hedwig was because she was all over the place, not putting herself into the role, and allegedly had a drug or alcohol problem during her run of the show. i still believe a female could play hedwig. sandra bernhardt was the first choice, i'd still love to have seen how that turned out.
ps. go audra!
BT
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/16/04
#8re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:57pmYou're right, Audra shouldn't have to convice you she's white - what she has to convince you of is that she's a woman who is deeply in love with a man who is much too in love with his work. The part where she stands in front of the painting lasts about 2 minutes, and the willing suspension of disbelief button can be pressed at that point. My guess is that she'll have us all in the palm of her hand and skin color comparisons with the painting will not enter into the picture, so to speak.
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
MargoChanning
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/5/04
#9re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:58pmThe character of Dot is a fiction invented by Sondheim and Lapine -- she didn't actually exist (and the character of Seurat is also a fiction -- while such a person did exist, history recorded nothing about him other than he was a painter who died young .... the Seurat in the musical is an invention). There were many persons of African descent in the Paris of the 1880s and it would hardly be surprising that a few of them would be artists' models. It's entirely possible that SITPWG's Seurat could have had an affair with a black model named Dot, but decided to paint her as white in the painting to avoid scandal (it might also further explain why he's so hesitant to go to the Follies with her and spend time with her in public).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
Updated On: 8/18/04 at 12:58 PM
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#10re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 12:58pm
Actually...I think it is a worthy conversation to have re: a black actress playing a role in which the TWO paintings that represent her are both of white women.
This being a concert production, there should be no problem.
But a full production brings up an interesting point. Do you disregard the notion that a black actress is represented by white women in paintings, or do you somehow make a point of it...adding a very intersting, but not textually supported, layer to this piece.
I don't see the harm in the discussion of this.
Personally I don't care. My suspension of disbelief mechanism is quite strong.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
MargoChanning
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/5/04
#11re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:08pm
Besides everything else, I thought that one of the points of a concert production was that you can cast solely for the voice and totally disregard physical attributes such age or race. It happens often at Encores, for example, that performers are cast in roles who would never be able to play certain roles in a fully staged production.
As for Cerveris in Jelly's Last Jam, Jelly Roll Morton was a real person, a celebrity in fact, that we actually have photographs of, unlike Seurat. Add to that the fact the musical SPECIFICALLY deals with race and skin color so casting a non-African American actor would undermine the point of the show, in a way that, say, casting a white actor as The Leading Player in Pippin wouldn't since the role and the show have nothing to do with race.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#12re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:10pmThink back to the revival of "Carousel" in the 90s. The mixed race casting absolutely worked. I found the performances wonderful and glad that the casting directors did something different for a change. It's all about the talent and interpretation.
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
#13re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:19pm
If this is a concert production, I agree--it's a different story. And a chance to hear Audra in concert is a beautiful thing.
However, virtually all impressionist art from that time, in a picture of that type, does not include minorities. That's just the way it was. But if Margo says it's plausible, i will not doubt it.
'The Devil be hitting me!'--Whitney Houston
#14re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:25pmi really dont think it should matter what color she is. talent is what is most important.
#15re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:27pmOn a side note...Whoopi Goldberg in "Forum" a few seasons ago. She was hysterical considering the role was originally written for a man. To me her performance was the funniest I had ever witnessed in a Broadway show.
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
emonkeygirl
Featured Actor Joined: 3/30/04
#16re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:37pm
I'm all for color/gender/etc blind casting for everything, except when it's a historical character. I think Audra would be amazing as Dot.
But all wrong to play Abe Lincoln.
It's hot and it's monotonous.
I want my glasses.
kissmycookie
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/21/04
#17re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 1:48pm
I was going to mention that she was Carrie Pippenridge in Carousel a few years ago. Nic Hytner didn't give a rat's tushie what colour she was. She could sing and act, and that was all that mattered.
AM has said she wants to play Eliza Dolittle one of these days. How would people respond to that?
MargoChanning
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/5/04
#18re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 2:17pmI'd love to see her Eliza. Mind you, I'm not sure how many black c*ckney flower girls there were in London in 1912 (though there were Africans living in some of the poorer areas at the time) and I'm not sure anyone (let alone a linguistic expert) would mistake her for Hungarian, but as soon as she opens her mouth to sing that score, I'm willing to suspend any disbelief.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
Updated On: 8/18/04 at 02:17 PM
Millie42
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/19/04
#19re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 2:18pm
Margo, you impress me everytime you post.
Thank you for those comments. I could not have said it more beautifully.
"My friends have made the story of my life."
-Helen Keller
Marquise
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/1/04
#20re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 2:24pm
i agree with margo shes made some valid points.
i really dont see the big deal in audra playing "dot" in SITPWG.
debbie allen played "charity" in "sweet charity" opposite a white "oscar" and no one gave two sh**s, and that was back in 1986.
hell, debbie allen played "anita" in "west side story" and she's not even puerto rican. and i didnt hear any 'ricans from my neck of the woods complain about that either. lol
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#21re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 2:32pm
But...and of course this is hypothetical since this is a concert and not a full production...how does one propose making the show work when two of the pieces of art that represent Dot are clearly white women.
Like I said...I don't care. But it does pose a unique challenge.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
BT
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/16/04
#22re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 2:36pmI just wouldn't address the issue. As Margot so eloquently reminded us, both the character and the details of the painter are fiction and the authors don't try to hide that fact. If I saw the discrepancy I would not probably think of Margot's explaination about Dot really being black but there being pressure to represent her as white, but that is only because that is far too clever for someone like me to think of... I'd just be glad that they didn't color in the Dot in the painting to make her black.
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
robbiej
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#23re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 2:45pm
That doesn't necessarily work...and I speak from experience. In college, I was in a production of THE BAKER'S WIFE. I, a honky, was playing the Baker and the girl playing Genevieve (the wife) is black. And I posed a problem that was never addressed.
The story is of an older man marrying a much younger woman. All of the villagers are gossips who can't get over the relationship between this homely old man and this beautiful young girl. Problem was, our Genevieve was the only black person on the stage. So...for the first half-hour of the show, it looked like it was a town full of racists freaking out over a mixed marriage. Which can be interesting...no doubt...problem was our director never addressed it. So...in the end, the wrong message was sent.
To ignore the reality on stage is, I believe, artistically irresponsible in some situations. If you can't change the text, encourage your actors to find a rich and compelling subtext that informs the show.
Even something like the revival of CAROUSEL, I believe, used colorblind casting to make a point about the universality of the story.
"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."
#24re: Audra Can't Be in 'Sunday In The Park'
Posted: 8/18/04 at 3:09pm
margochanning is my idol.
18 more days till i see that african american goddess in sunday!
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