Israel-Hamas War- Page 4
Israel-Hamas War
#75“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 8:53am
I've thought about this before, and yes - I concede you make a good point. A moral conundrum indeed. I have criticized the Biden administration many times for their stance on this issue. I've even considered withdrawing my support for his candidacy. I really have no good answer, other to say that I still believe that Trump would be worse. Much worse.
Sarah Kendzior, one of my moral compasses, says that the political figure from history that Trump most resembles is Bibi Netanyahu. Corrupt, selfish, bulldozer of every court in the land until he gets his way. She also highlights the strong decades-long links between Bibi and the Kushners. Remember how Jared arranged for the US Embassy to be moved to Jerusalem? So yeah, I don't think things would get any better for the citizens of Gaza with Trump back in the White House.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#76“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 12:12pm
I agree with you that at the very least, it’d probably be much worse with Trump than Biden.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Pauly3
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/11
#77“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 12:40pm
Jay, I replied to your comment earlier, but mine was deleted as I believe I violated the forum rules by attacking you rather than your comment. I will endeavor not do that again.
Do you not see that you allow yourself a moral conundrum and defend yourself for supporting Biden, the lesser of two evils, but you don't allow me the same in regard to Trump? Somehow, you see it only unreasonable in my case. Somehow, I have to be both wrong and unreasonable, but not you?
Do you really not see a problem - on your end?
#78“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 1:32pm
But Jay’s point of lesser of two evils in this thread is specifically related to the Israel issue. In other contexts he wouldn’t suggest Biden is the lesser of two evils, he would suggest Trump is evil and not Biden. I think if you want to stray away from Israel and are speaking more broadly it’s better to keep it in the election thread not this one because it’s a different conversation.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#79“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 2:46pm
Benjamin N in congress: "They hold signs saying gays for Gaza....they might as well be saying chickens for KFC".
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Pauly3
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/11
#80“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 3:13pm
It's not as simple as Jay overcoming Biden's one little evil against my overcoming Trump's many evils. Being complicit in genocide is staggeringly significant. My calling Jay out for his hypocrisy, here where he (and you) have revealed his consistency issue, is warranted.
There's added nuance that Jay is well aware of. He ignores that nuance and believes I am both wrong and unreasonable. But he doesn't allow that possibility for himself. I may well be wrong, but my reasoning - based on many factors - isn't unreasonable. And one of those (significant) factors is working toward peace in the Middle East.
To add additional relevance, I will repeat what I stated in my now deleted comment:
Had Trump won in 2020, there is a good chance this current war would not exist. Maybe. Maybe not. Unlike Trump, I do not insist. Regardless of whether I am right or wrong on this point, tensions in the Middle East were relatively calm and improving (not regressing), unlike with the current horror taking place during Biden's administration. So I disagree with you both. Information and evidence isn't sufficient to even begin suggesting the situation in Gaza would be worse if Trump were in office. In fact, relevant history already played out is more suggestive of the opposite.
**Before attacking my comment about the temperature in the Middle East, note the words "relatively" and "improving". I add this note, because it's too predictable I would be called out otherwise.
#81“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 3:22pm
The main argument I've heard claimed (was it Trump himself?) is that if Trump was in office then relations with Iran would be different and they wouldn't have had the resources to fund the October 7th attack. If this is true (I don't really understand the complexities enough to say either way) then of course it would be more peaceful now with Trump. My claim though is that if October 7th attack did happen under Trump's watch it's easy to imagine that the US would enable Israel's very aggressive response even more so than Biden given Trump's very strong pro-israel stances in the past (e.g. the Jerusalem capital recognition, which I can see Benjamin N has thanked Trump very firmly in Congress for just moments ago), plus the general sentiment that the Republican Party are more hawkish when it comes to war and conflict. I can also see Benjamin N has thanked Biden too, clearly trying to build alliances across both sides of the political spectrum.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 7/24/24 at 03:22 PM
Pauly3
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/11
#82“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 3:44pm
Fair point. I also disagree with that point too though. Trump has demonstrated he desires no wars and promotes himself as a "peace thru strength" guy - yes, I understand much of it is rhetoric, but I believe his desire for no wars is genuine. I think he would have had more influence on Netanyahu in pursuing a resolution, not more influence leading to more death and destruction. It's hard to imagine more, is it not? I mean, reasonably?
#83“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 3:48pm
Donald Trump doesn’t give a sh!t about Gaza. Or Yemen. Or Somalia. Or Ukraine.
Or America.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
Pauly3
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/11
#84“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 4:24pm
I don't agree, but even if you were right about Trump not caring, that changes nothing of what I just said. In other words, your retort was irrelevant, shortsighted and, once again, failed to address the specific point.
#85“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 4:33pm
You “imagine" that Trump would have dealt with current events in Gaza better, but condemn me for imagining that Trump would cause worldwide havoc. Seems fair.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
Pauly3
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/11
#86“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 4:45pm
Please point to where I condemned you for imagining Trump would cause worldwide havoc.
I did not imagine anything. I stated conditions were better while Trump was president (unlike when Biden was front and center), and I provided reasons why I thought Trump would have had a more positive influence if he was front and center rather than Biden since October 7th. I also asked the question, how much more death and destruction in Gaza was reasonably expected if Trump was dealing with the situation. Rhetorical, yes. Because no more death and destruction was imaginable, even with the all evil Trump. I provided my argument as to why I disagreed with you that Trump would be worse.
You didn't address any of those points. Why is that?
#87“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 5:00pm
Do I have any hope of convincing you to vote for Harris? Probably that’s why not.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#88“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 5:26pm
binau said: "Benjamin N in congress: "They hold signs saying gays for Gaza....they might as well be saying chickens for KFC"."
I believe that Israel needs to find a way, fast, to give Palestinians full political rights, either in their own state or in one secular and pluralistic state (my pie-in-the-sky preferred resolution). But there is a valid point to be made in the above quotation. What reason, really, do we have to believe that a new Palestinian state would protect the rights of LGBT people, women, and religious minorities? Its neighbors don't do a great job at that, to say the least.
Pauly3
Broadway Star Joined: 12/12/11
#89“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 7/24/24 at 5:28pm
That's a garbage answer. You didn't address my points because you had nothing to offer as a rebuttal. If you did, you would have argued it. Or rather, a reasonable person would.
lovepuppy
Broadway Star Joined: 12/7/05
#91“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 8/1/24 at 2:23am
Indeed. VERY good news. Not only "a" top Hama$ leader--THE top Hama$ leader. Ismail Haniyeh was killed 2 days ago on a visit to Iran, hosted by the IRGC in a guest house where he'd been welcomed (and--sort of--"protected") in the past. It is unclear whether it was an overhead drone missile sent from another country (Israel), or whether the explosion that killed him in the bedroom was planted by local sources. But intelligence has been leaking that some Iranians tipped off the IDF as to where he was. The Iranian people are under the thumb of the Islamic Republic government, since 1979, and the citizens detest what that leadership has done to them, too. They just don't have the freedom, money, or weapons to overthrow them, themselves.
Anyway. The local Gaza head of Hama$, devil-incarnate Yiyeh Sinwar, is still at large in the dank musty tunnels under Gaza, somewhere. (What a life. You could've used the billions in humanitarian aid and donations to build a thriving beach region, but instead, you built musty underground tunnels for you and your henchmen to...live? while threatening hostages and hiding bodies in the walls. F'ing billionaire spending his final days roaming like a mole person.) But along with Mohamed Deif, longtime terrorist whom the IDF killed 2 weeks ago, Hezbollah senior operative Fuad Shukr being eliminated this week as well (after launching the horrific attack that killed 12 Israeli Arab Druze children and injured 39 others during a soccer game at a playground on Saturday), and now Haniyeh...Sinwar's days are numbered. Here's hoping they finally release the hostages, as Hama$ has NO leadership, the IDF has neutralized much of Hama$'s capabilities in Gaza, and they have no leverage. It's been 302 days, for heaven's sakes.
Btw--here is the MOST informative podcast on Israel politics, analysis, news coverage, how it has to strategize with Middle Eastern minds who kill each other, let alone attack Israel, and how this all affects America. Make it appointment listening. Every week. Sometimes every few days:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had the practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." --Alice in Wonderland
#92“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 8/22/24 at 3:52pm
Sad to see this thread slip further down the page, as atrocities still are happening. We shouldn't let the constant churn of election cycle news distract us. When will this END?
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#93“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/1/24 at 4:05pm
Another day of utter horror in Israel and Gaza.
Mass protests against Bibi. General strike planned for tomorrow.
Today and tonight I am thinking of the mother of the American murdered hostage, who recently spoke at the DNC.
How much more can we take?
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
Updated On: 9/1/24 at 04:05 PM
lovepuppy
Broadway Star Joined: 12/7/05
#94“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/4/24 at 2:12am
Indeed. I have relatives and colleagues who know the family. They were inadvertently put on the world stage, all in service of leaving no stone unturned, to save their son, because he has the good fortune to be an American citizen. And his mother, Rachel, a modest school teacher, has turned out to be one of the greatest statespeople the contemporary world has known. We certainly haven't heard as much about the other hostages, as there are 27 other countries the represented within them, so hopefully THEIR countries have public outcry in their own hometown localities.
Forty-five Americans were killed by Hama$ on Oct 7th, and 9 people, of 251, were Americans taken hostage. Two were released in October. There are now approx. 4-5 Americans presumed to be living. Hersh and the other American-Israeli dual citizen hostages should have been, and should be on the news in the U.S. EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. Just like in the late-70s during the Iran Hostage Crisis that lasted over a year. (I was young back then, but remember it being on the news frequently and Reagan speaking about it, frequently.) The fact that they haven't, and that a bunch of ninny kids (and some college faculty members) are out in the streets *wearing cosplay keffiyahs and carrying terrorist flags* in America, is an abomination.
And it's just what the terrorists want. Iran and Qatar, among other MENA nations, have been pumping billions of dollars into American colleges (and some high schools) since the mid-90s--to specifically indoctrinate OUR students, and this is what has happened. It's bad enough that they are attempting the worlds largest marketing campaign to conquer our young people, but our government leaders, anyone over 40 years old and certainly more seasoned, should know better and this should be front-and-center on our news EVERY DAY, yet it is not.
It's only news when someone brutally dies with a gunshot to the head along with 5 others? Shameful. Biden is pissed at Netanyahu but should be doing more--including using more prominent, and different/more supportive rhetoric on the subject--in public. Hersh and the others--4 bodies being held and 4 more captives still presumed alive--are AMERICANS, after all. Netanyahu has a point about not vacating the Philadelphi corridor "and returning if they need to," and how dangerous that would be, but Netanyahu was also this/close to nailing down a deal that Biden, Egypt, Qatar, and even f'ing Hama$ were ready to accept, after 3 months of discussion, when he changed the terms on them, a week ago.
And the thing is, being "mad at our leaders" plays right into the terrorists' hands--they WANT people mad at Biden and mostly WANT Israelis to turn on each other and waste time in the streets. Their strike yesterday arguably was a distraction or mistake, but you can't blame a population for speaking out against its government during a time when literal lives are at stake. NO ONE should forget that the main entity that must be held accountable here are HAMA$ only, and no one should be openly trying to blame anyone else. Finally the U.S. "charged Hama$" with crimes, today....after 11 months and high-profile hostage death?? Where were these charges 10 months ago, to hold these monsters accountable? The numbness or anti-Israel/anti-Jewish/anti-American sentiment--among AMERICANS--is horrifying. Our leaders need to be saying, out loud, that the terrorists hate AMERICA (and Europe, and Canada) and want to harm us, too, and to instill in us that the global threat of the Islamist extremist intent is real, and should be fought. Actively. And hard.
Through sharing the basic humanity of this young man, especially at the DNC with the emotional "Bring Them Home" chants among Democrats (why some people think Democrats are anti-Israel is crazy, since most American Jews are Democrats, but it doesn't mean this group has to be lumped in with crazy uninformed ninny ultra-leftists), Hersh has become America's son/brother/nephew/grandson/cousin/friend. And the brutal nature by which he and the 5 others died, by order of Sinwar and so that the terrorists could simply flee their disgusting, dank tunnel vacation homes, is unfathomable to those of us with beating hearts and consciences. Of course you were thinking of them.
But this war has to end. Israel is fighting the WORLD's war and no other country has sent troops to help, despite 27 countries represented by the hostages, and people just keep criticizing the country while it is attacked on 7 fronts by Iran-backed murderous thugs, instead of thanking the freaking IDF. The terrorists have no intention of stopping at destroying Israel. If Israel hadn't existed, they'd have come after the U.S. long before 9/11 and intend to, again. The world should be working harder to stop them.
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had the practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." --Alice in Wonderland
Updated On: 9/4/24 at 02:12 AM
lovepuppy
Broadway Star Joined: 12/7/05
#95“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/4/24 at 4:29am
Btw, came across this wonderful podcast interview with Rachel Goldberg-Polin as of Day #74 of the war (since Oct. 7). Optimism abounds. Heartbreaking now. It is called "Meaningful People":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqdws8Cbh-A
Also, this is a very important podcast to be listening to, every week, regarding the war and the political strategies, analyses, and complications Israel has to consider when making military, social, economic, legal, and safety-oriented decisions. This is the most recent episode, discussing the execution of the 6 hostages this weekend. But listen to as many eps as you can to catch up, and tell your friends, as they are uninformed unless they listen to this. The mainstream media doesn't report or discuss most of these things. It is called "Call Me Back" with journalist Dan Senor, who has family and journalistic connections in Israel and who is based in NY:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-execution-of-six-hostages-with-haviv-rettig/id1539292794?i=1000668015886
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had the practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." --Alice in Wonderland
#96“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/23/24 at 12:46pm
Over 200 dead in Lebanon today. Misery continues in Gaza.
Why does Biden have NO leverage over Israel whatsoever?
Why does the US continue to supply weapons to be used for evil?
Why is a naval armada stationed in the Mediterranean?
Would Trump be even worse?
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#97“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/23/24 at 12:50pm
Isn’t the title of this thread deeply outdated by now?
All out fullscale war is about to erupt involving multiple countries.
Shouldn’t USA, UK, and Germany be ashamed?
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#98“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/23/24 at 4:34pm
Jay Hezbolla like Hamas is a terrorist organisation that just started attacking Israel after October 7th and won’t stop. What do you expect Israel to do? Nothing? It’s a different situation to Gaza.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#99“Israel-Hamas War”
Posted: 9/23/24 at 4:48pm
If Israel (or any other country) does not follow international humanitarian law, then it too is a terrorist state.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
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